Cover Image: July 2009 Scientific American Magazine See Inside

Did China's Nuclear Tests Kill Thousands and Doom Future Generations?

Radioactive clouds hung over villagers as China detonated nuclear bombs in the air for four decades















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Fireball resulting from nuclear test at the Nevada test site in the U.S. Image: United States Department of Energy

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Enver Tohti remembers the week that it rained dust. That summer of 1973 he was in elementary school in Xinjiang Province, China’s westernmost region, which is inhabited mostly by Uygurs, one of the country’s minority ethnic groups. “There were three days that earth fell from the sky, without wind or any sort of storm. The sky was deadly silent—no sun, no moon,” he recalls. When the kids asked what was happening, the teacher told them that there was a storm on Saturn (its Chinese name translates into “soil planet”). Tohti believed her. It was only years later that he realized it was radioactive dust raised by the test detonation of a nuclear bomb within the province.

Three decades on, Tohti, now a medical doctor, is launching an investigation into the toll still being taken—and one that the Chinese government steadfastly refuses to acknowledge. A few hundred thousand people may have died as a result of radiation from at least 40 nuclear explosions carried out between 1964 and 1996 at the Lop Nur site in Xinjiang, which lies on the Silk Road. Almost 20 million people reside in Xinjiang, and Tohti believes that they offer unique insight into the long-term impact of radiation, including the relatively little studied genetic effects that may be handed down over generations. He is establishing the Lop Nur project at Sapporo Medical University in Japan with physicist Jun Takada to evaluate these consequences.

“It is a sad opportunity, but it is an opportunity nonetheless to both learn something new and replicate what we think we are seeing elsewhere,” observes Anders Møller, who co-directs the Chernobyl Research Initiative (CRI) and is based at the National Center for Scientific Research in Paris.

Takada has calculated that the peak radiation dose in Xinjiang exceeded that measured on the roof of the Chernobyl nuclear reactor after it melted down in 1986. Most damage to Xinjiang locals came from detonations during the 1960s and 1970s, which rained down a mixture of radioactive material and sand from the surrounding desert. Some were three-megaton explosions, 200 times larger than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, says Takada, who published his findings in a book, Chinese Nuclear Tests (Iryo­ka­gakusha, 2009).

In the early 1990s Takada, who studied radiation effects from tests conducted by the U.S., the former Soviet Union and France, was invited by scientists in Kazakhstan, which borders Xinjiang, to evaluate the hazard from Chinese tests. He devised a computer model to estimate fallout patterns using Soviet rec­ords of detonation size and wind velocity as well as radiation levels measured in Kazakhstan from 1995 to 2002. Takada was not allowed into China, so he extrapolated his model and used infor­mation about the population density in Xinjiang to estimate that 194,000 people would have died as a result of acute radiation exposure. Around 1.2 million received doses high enough to induce leukemia, solid cancers and fetal damage. “My estimate is a conservative minimum,” Takada says.

The figures came as little surprise to Tohti. Ironically, as a teenager, he was proud that his province was chosen for tests marking China’s technological and military progress. His view changed when he became a physician and saw a disproportionate number of malignant lymphomas, lung cancers, leukemia cases, degenerative disorders and babies born with deformities. “Many doctors suspected this was connected to the tests, but we couldn’t say anything,” Tohti recalls. “We were warned away from researching by our superiors.”

Tohti was only able to speak out in 1998, when he moved to Turkey, ostensibly as part of his medical training. There he joined forces with a team of British documentary filmmakers whom he smuggled back into Xinjiang as tourists. Together they uncovered medical records showing that cancer rates were 30 to 35 percent higher in the province than the national average.



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  1. 1. namrehsif 03:40 PM 7/8/09

    PSR published research 10 years ago indicating that our military knew of risk for those downwind of the atmospheric testing of nukes; they ignored the risk and one indicator was the death of between 59,000 and 109,000 children died from thyroid cancer, thanks to the nuke testing and the Iodine 131 with a half life ot 2 weeks. If mitochondria had evolved to a 4-star-predator predator (like the military objective) rather than a mutualistic-symbiont, would you be here to read this?

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  2. 2. fantasyfeline 04:46 PM 7/8/09

    From 1966 to 1976, the whole nation suffered. There were many victims in China, mostly Hans, died for various reasons such as famine. And if the Nuclear Tests killed many Uygurs, it also killed many Hans there. Generally our government doesn't discriminate any ethnic groups.

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  3. 3. mcf123 01:13 AM 7/9/09

    American didn't massacre American Indians.
    No American was a dealer in black flesh.
    WOW, each American is a saint.

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  4. 4. leo.c 03:42 AM 7/9/09

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  5. 5. leo.c 03:43 AM 7/9/09

    美国和日本很支持对中国的这方面研究!!
    不过确实我们国家当时做的不好
    如果写这篇文章只是纯科学的动机我们无可厚黑
    如果有些别的什么思想的话那就应该受到谴责!
    不要动不动就提到中国政府 做科学跟政府没有那么很必然的联系

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  6. 6. lychen0729 04:59 AM 7/9/09

    I would like to wish that this website would be more science, not to take too much politic views. I would or would not believe the data of chinese nuclear exploration had caused serious diseases or harmful effects to the locals. To further clarity these question, I think, the research groups refered above could suggest to China government to do research work on this area. Or they could try to find and cooperate with the Chinese research groups doing scientific survey or work to findout what happaned. Your guy should believe that the government and Research institution would be pleasant to your suggestions.

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  7. 7. jor.richard 09:04 AM 7/9/09

    Often I come here to read articles about science and technology. However, I disappointed this time. This paper is just like an editorial in NYTimes or CNN.

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  8. 8. Veronica 09:53 AM 7/9/09

    As a Chinese, I feel shamful for our government not taking effective measures to help those civillian victims. But it doesn't mean that the government won't make any moves in the future. I think it's a good thing that people concern about this issue because it will set pressure on our government so that the problem will be solved in the future.

    I don't really agree that this article has any political tendency. It just shows us the fact which most Chinese don't know. And instead of particualr political tendency, it focuses on human right which is a universal problem. Why we Chinese just keep refusing the truths that may not show a good side of China? We all know the problems but we forbid other people to talk about.That's not fair.

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  9. 9. Veronica in reply to fantasyfeline 09:59 AM 7/9/09

    That's a mockery,right? It looks that our history is filled with pains...

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  10. 10. frgough 10:27 AM 7/9/09

    Good grief. Half a million people live in Nagasaki and Hiroshima today.

    The dangers of radiation are way overstated. Biological systems are self-repairing. But say the word "cancer" and we all run around like chicken little.

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  11. 11. Li 10:29 AM 7/9/09

    God bless the painful people!

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  12. 12. andyfrank07 11:15 AM 7/9/09

    This article is certainly have no evidence and no solid background information but only based on pure "guess" and "memory". To choose a time like this to publish it only suggests Scientific American is not only a science journal but a political propaganda machine. I am very surprised with this and would like know who is subsidizer of the journal and the web.

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  13. 13. VanPer 11:15 AM 7/9/09

    Obviously, each American is a saint.

    Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this
  14. 14. Quinn the Eskimo 09:10 PM 7/9/09

    Ever hear of St. George, Utah?

    BTW that's in the USA.

    Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this
  15. 15. kekekeke 12:19 AM 7/10/09

    美国和日本很支持对中国的这方面研究!!
    不过确实我们国家当时做的不好
    如果写这篇文章只是纯科学的动机我们无可厚黑
    如果有些别的什么思想的话那就应该受到谴责!
    不要动不动就提到中国政府 做科学跟政府没有那么很必然的联系
    ===========
    研制原子弹能算是纯科学实验吗?科学是跟政府没什么关系,但原子弹也能和政府没有关系吗?不去先想想应该如何帮助那些受辐射的同胞,反倒去质疑别人的动机,站着说话不腰疼。

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  16. 16. counterstrike in reply to leo.c 01:24 AM 7/10/09

    i agree, i have seen videos of general assaults on house back right after the blast. of course those videos are banned, but you can still find it on the net.

    however the important point is, when those videos were shot, people had no idea what radiation would do to you, its short therm and long term effects on the human body.

    any data related to this subject would be classified as state secret, however, as of stepping forward and offering treatment to people affected, that would be a major political move. China is a different place than North America, the social structure and way of life is different, such bold political movements will jeopardize the stability and security of the nation. therefore im not expecting to see it performed any time soon.

    In the case of China, change is coming, but it could only be so fast...

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  17. 17. jojojuanita 03:41 AM 7/10/09

    It's really unfair to say like that. Xinjiang Province is one of the biggest province of China and many areas there has few people. As I heard before, if China gorvenment do unclear test, they choose the Gobi or some where like that. And they did do there best to protect all of the nation including Hens and Uygurs. This passage may be used by some one not good to misunderstand Uygurs. If something bad is done because of this passage, your magezine should take the responsibility for it.

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  18. 18. Runesmith 04:33 AM 7/10/09

    Conclusion: only Chinese radiation kills people. It's a proven scientific fact, because SciAm says so. It was proven by a dissident who fled the country because of his political beliefs, and a researcher who never set foot in the country. Who needs facts when the story is so good?

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  19. 19. Jasmine 06:57 AM 7/10/09

    it's true, it's a sorrow for all the human being, not only for Chinese people. Anyway, Chinese is not the first country for such test.

    Even other countries' civilian got compensation from goverment. any use? No. any kinds of cancers and death won't leave you because of money.

    the root solution is to stop the conflict and war. If there is always threat from any goverments, any country have the intention to perform such test, such as Korea...

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  20. 20. ghostls 09:11 PM 7/10/09

    Takada was not allowed into China

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  21. 21. ghostls 09:28 PM 7/10/09

    "Takada was not allowed into China" how could he do his research precisely, how could he measure the radiative effects that introduced by the atomic bomb?
    So, this article is obviously politically biased. I usually treat the SciAm as a popular science magazine, but this time I feel pity!
    The author is not propagandize science, he is playing politics

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  22. 22. elderlybloke 01:17 AM 7/11/09

    Can any of you remember the atmospheric tests by USA ?
    I recall film of Sailers on US warships watching the atomic bomb tests (with dark glasses) , and on land of soldiers walking towards the mushroom cloud.

    I wonder what the death rate has been for them from fallout.
    The ethics of the recently revealed secret testing by the CIA of nerve gas
    and other nasties, should not be forgotten in toting up the suffering of innocent people

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  23. 23. Jallen 01:54 AM 7/11/09

    I think what the article is talking about is ridiculous,anyone with common sense should know this kind of nuclear test should be experimented in some non-human places,with no doubt,xinjiang's gobi desert is the most reasonable location, given the then complicated international intense military surroundings,Chinese govennment had no choice,don't try to talk about politics when you know nothing at all!

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  24. 24. Joy 03:36 AM 7/11/09

    Fist ,I'm not sure all figures above are well investigated, and the fact is true enough.What I would like to say is that it is a scientific experiment and nothing personal. I feel sorry for those victims suffering in that nuclear test,including people of minority ethic groups as well as Hans who were living there. And it is obviously that they could not choose big city like Beijing as the location if that is what some of you want. As the saying goes, science is a doubled edged-sword,it inevitably has its advantages and disadbantags,we try to keep balance. When the result can not be totally harmless,we do our best to make damage the least. The top priority is finding ways to help but not distorting a nation's image.Put emphasis on the aid to those victims and be objective.

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  25. 25. clgworks 09:15 AM 7/12/09

    This is not a China issue - it is a cold-war mass hysteria issue. Every government that could pursued nuclear armaments in order to keep even with their fears of real and imagined adversaries. Every nuclear power conducted tests and did so with great secrecy early on in the midst of general public and to some degree scientific ignorance. Every government has delayed acknowledging, compensating or meeting the essential care needs of civilian and military victims and survivors. Continued transparency of records and research coupled with genuine compassion and caring for the families and their decendents whose lives were directly affected. There is no need to point fingers and search for guilt, just a need to help identify and assist those whose bodies have (and are) been injured.

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  26. 26. dreamseekerken 11:26 AM 7/12/09

    The feeling is not good while reading the "scientific" article. How could the conclusion be convincing if there is no solid evidence? Wish the editor of Sciam magazine does not publish any paper relevant to the political issue.

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  27. 27. aggellos 06:07 AM 7/13/09

    Yep Sci-am keep to the science and away from stupid politcal finger pointing, the U.S.A and all other countries with a nulcear test past have made grave errors and i wonder who are the only ones to have used them in anger..not china!

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  28. 28. aggellos 06:26 AM 7/13/09

    I mean America would never use a nuclear weapon without fully understanding it consequences!, remember a certain H bomb test that was expected to be 5 megaton and turned out to be 12 megatons, even my own country GB has had it’s fair share of ridiculous test’s I don’t think there is one nuclear power who has not endangered the masses during the cold war and nuclear arms race.

    So please stick to science and not political finger pointing or conspiracy sludge…and really the start of the topic says it all “DID” are you asking the world a question, or promoting a view without validation.

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  29. 29. Michael Cook 09:48 AM 7/13/09

    The subject of how much damage downwind radiation actually does should be the first chapter in any college textbook that aims to teach brilliant young minds how to think objectively, especially in using rationality to screen out red herrings.

    For instance, the inherent problem with ascribing "increased" cancers due to nuclear fall-out is that if they live long enough many people will die from some type of cancer. Unfortunately, lifelong exposure to many factors can increase the incidence of common and uncommon tumors.

    For instance, when down-winders from Utah and nearby states went to court to seek federal compensation for American above-ground nuclear testing (900+ explosions) their attorneys argued that although the documented incidence of cancer was actually lower in the complaining population than in the US as a whole, the cancer rate of these people should have been lower still, due to the fact that many of them were Mormon and neither drank nor smoked!

    That remarkable argument carried the day and hundreds of millions of dollars were distributed to the survivors of basically everybody who died of cancer in a certain geographical region subject to long-range fall-out. The judge must have believed that everyone who claims to be a good lifestyle Mormon has actually never smoked or drank.

    Later downwinders from the Atomic Energy Commission's leaky Hanford plant in Washington state tried the same tactic. This time it didn't work so well because many of these victims were working class people who had smoked and drank quite enthusiastically their whole lives. They did have a higher incidence of cancer, but their projected exposure to radiation from leaks was also much lower than the rads that above-ground testing had spread around.

    Probably the most intense radiation ever released to the atmosphere followed the Chernobyl disaster, but that was a one-time event. Just how dangerous a one-time exposure is compared to cumulative exposures is an extremely controversial area. It really does seem like the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki who died of radiation effects did so in the first few months. Later many more Japanese of that era would succomb to cancers, but they were the common old-age cancers and also we have to remember that Japan (like Russia) is a highly industrial society that for many decades did not pay much attention to a whole lot of other cancer-causing chemicals they were using.

    Plus a lot of Japanese and Russians (in the Chernobyl down-wind area) would smoke and drink.

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  30. 30. theo 03:42 AM 7/14/09

    1. Nuclear fallout causes cancer in the nearby population. This has been scientifically demonstrated everywhere bombs have been detonated or large-scale radiation exposures have taken place, including the American West, Polynesia, Japan, Chernobyl, Kazakhstan, etc.

    2. There's nothing different about Chinese nuclear testing. In fact, due to population density, even in their western provinces the number of people exposed was very large.

    3. Fallout goes all directions. Extrapolating the exposure in China from the exposure in a neighboring country is a reasonable method, when the Chinese won't let you study their country!

    If the Chinese government is certain the tests didn't affect the population, why don't they allow international scholars to study it anyway?

    Oh, I know -- because the Chinese government, as with every environmental disaster and epidemic that has ever taken place, has placed its goal of social harmony above the lives of its people. 200,000 is a lot of lives.

    I pity the Chinese people who believe everything their government does has an excuse, and who feel obligated to write comments defaming a very interesting medical article.

    I hope they are at least being paid by their government to post these comments; otherwise they're just suckers.

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  31. 31. Miss M 03:16 PM 7/15/09

    The answer to the title question is Yes!

    We have our own problems here in the U.S. - Google "Downwinders" to see the problems we've had with radioactive fallout.

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  32. 32. Miss M 03:17 PM 7/15/09

    The answer to the title question is Yes!

    We have our own problems here in the U.S. - Google "Downwinders" to see the problems we've had with radioactive fallout.

    Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this
  33. 33. Miss M 03:17 PM 7/15/09

    The answer to the title question is Yes!

    We have our own problems here in the U.S. - Google "Downwinders" to see the problems we've had with radioactive fallout.

    Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this
  34. 34. Miss M 03:17 PM 7/15/09

    The answer to the title question is Yes!

    We have our own problems here in the U.S. - Google "Downwinders" to see the problems we've had with radioactive fallout.

    Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this
  35. 35. Miss M 03:19 PM 7/15/09

    The answer to the question in the title is Yes.

    Check out the problems we've had with radioactive fallout in the U.S. since the 1950s by Googling: Downwinders

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  36. 36. Steven.D.Sun 07:23 AM 7/16/09

    It was not actually a scientific study delivered by Takada, but with all estimated data to draw conclusions about the totall number of victims. The most important fact that did not mentioned in this artical, according to my experience of political propagada, has been deliberately neglected. That is in the region of Nuclear experiement is an area of thounsands of square km dry salt lake surrounded by desert, there are no water at all, living not even one person.
    And this salt lake is about one thousand km away from the Uygurs dwelling as well as cities. How on earth could be a number of 194,000 casualty been possible.
    The situation of Xinjiang is alike with it in Navada, look at the map, and you can find the big desert there in Xinjiang.
    I need Kakada tell me how many people living in the desert?

    what did US government told the citizens in Navada about the experiement ?And what is the number of casualty?Please think about it without bias and preoccupations.

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  37. 37. 2.71828 05:02 PM 7/17/09

    "I know not with what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones" -Albert Einstein

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  38. 38. 2.71828 05:05 PM 7/17/09

    "I know not with what waepons WWIII will be fought with, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones." -Albert Einstein

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  39. 39. chang0607@yahoo.com in reply to fantasyfeline 12:35 AM 7/31/09

    Yeah, if your government doesn't discriminate, why not conduct those nuclear tests near Beijing or Shanghai where the Han Chinese are densely populated?

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  40. 40. YPeter in reply to Veronica 05:54 AM 7/31/09

    Totally agree to Veronica. This is not a political, but tries to show what science can do us. Have to face the fact even if it is unfavorable to us. Not everybody is good, but just does want to so look. We must not block somebody else from seeing the fact, but allow them to know it.
    http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4587743

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  41. 41. YPeter 05:57 AM 7/31/09

    Totally agree to Veronica. This is not political, but just tries to show the fact. Everybody may may have an opinion, after just seeing the fact. Nobody must not block somebody else from observing the fact.

    Another attempt to show the fact which everybody would like to hide is:
    http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm4587743.

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  42. 42. abc 01:10 PM 7/31/09

    It's interesting. 4 months ago, a similar article appeared at times online. But it only said about the downwind Gansu province. Now, its direction changes to the upwind Xinjiang province when the article arrives USA. But even in the upwind the populated region close to the test site is about 400 kilometers away.

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  43. 43. abc 01:11 PM 7/31/09

    It's interesting. 4 months ago, a similar article appeared at times online. But it only said about the downwind Gansu province. Now, its direction changes to the upwind Xinjiang province when the article arrives USA. But even in the upwind the populated region close to the test site is about 400 kilometers away.

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  44. 44. itrips in reply to lychen0729 01:38 PM 7/31/09

    To lychen0729 at 04:59 AM on 07/09/09:
    I don't think the "research" results come out from Chinas institutions would confirm any dead of illness cases caused by the radioactive clouds. They probably would proof that those clouds just killed bad bugs and left local peoples bumper harvests for many years.

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  45. 45. hou in reply to chang0607@yahoo.com 02:15 PM 7/31/09

    Test are usually carried out far from the desert. Like the xinjing province.The population is low. In your suggestion i don't see any logical thinking of all. If like you say so, why dun the usa test nuke on their major cities

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  46. 46. xw4053 03:09 PM 7/31/09

    Considering the riot occurred in Xinjiang recently, I didn't feel surprised that this is a followup from those anti-china mobs. This is a typical western style propagation And no wonder they will jump out again and again. But who cares right now? The only thing they did is to force more and more educated young man to realize the disgusting and hypocritical faces of those western politicians

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  47. 47. xw4053 03:10 PM 7/31/09

    Considering the riot occurred in Xinjiang recently, I didn't feel surprised that this is a followup from those anti-china mobs. This is a typical western style propagation And no wonder they will jump out again and again. But who cares right now? The only thing they did is to force more and more educated young man to realize the disgusting and hypocritical faces of those western politicians

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  48. 48. tsenash 03:01 AM 8/1/09

    Simply political writing
    No nuclear test in US?
    No nuclear test in Western Countries? Huh!
    An acussation without enough proof

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  49. 49. tsenash in reply to xw4053 03:03 AM 8/1/09

    Can't agree more

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  50. 50. ald231 11:11 AM 8/2/09

    This article is ridiculous, without any cogent & solid evidence/data. It's out at this time just on political purpose, and for cheating those people who know nothing about China, about Xinjiang.

    Saintly American people should take some time to find what their government has done in Marshall Islands.

    American just like to accuse others when killing non-American...what a great nation!!

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  51. 51. ald231 in reply to chang0607@yahoo.com 11:20 AM 8/2/09

    Why not your stupid government conduct the nuclear test in your hometown?? Why not American government conducted the tests near Washington & NewYork, but in Nevada & New Mexico?

    Do you know anything about Xinjiang and speak out these shxts from your mouth?

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  52. 52. rereach 11:16 AM 8/3/09

    It's much convenient for Takada to do these kind of research on the consequence of American bombing Japan with nuclear weapons during World War II.

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  53. 53. tmjtp85 04:20 AM 8/8/09

    come on, is this website a sci one or a political one? i thought it was a sci, but now, things changed. if u talk about sci, give me numbers, with solid proof, not speculations, not those hypothesis. don't play Rebiya tricks with all the innocent people. we need goddamn proof. if you say there are a lot of patients, show us one photo or two which can be testified by all the netizens. the internet can not bring china democracy, but it do bring all the netizens a pair of invincible eyes, in front of which nothing fake will be exposed to light. not like u American idiots, who believe anything anti-China. be more sci, cut this political crap here.

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  54. 54. tmjtp85 04:21 AM 8/8/09

    come on, is this website a sci one or a political one? i thought it was a sci, but now, things changed. if u talk about sci, give me numbers, with solid proof, not speculations, not those hypothesis. don't play Rebiya tricks with all the innocent people. we need goddamn proof. if you say there are a lot of patients, show us one photo or two which can be testified by all the netizens. the internet can not bring china democracy, but it do bring all the netizens a pair of invincible eyes, in front of which nothing fake will be exposed to light. not like u American idiots, who believe anything anti-China. be more sci, cut this political crap here.

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  55. 55. voltaire2669 12:07 PM 8/26/09

    hahaha!!
    we can see many Sina's facists who has been invading Tibet,Uyghur,Taiwan on this page.
    they never watch document program by BBC in 1998 exposing the evil slaughter and tyranny to perform human rights violations.

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  56. 56. liberty 01:07 AM 10/20/09

    Can you idiots who do nothing but criticize this article for telling the truth please get a life???? One, those of you who said how can the numbers be accurate obviously know nothing of physics, its pretty easy to detect the presence of radiation activity in any given area with the right instrument&..which is exactly what Takada has done&.and obviously our Chinese friends with their comments would not like to admit the fact that their government is committing genocide against the Uighurs so I am not surprised that all I see is negative comments about the article, after all there are 1,330,044,544 of you in the world. this was a science site, I am disappointed because its become political are you kidding me, these are human lives we are talking about, and all you are interested is science, shame on you people. This is a truthful, factual article and many thanks to the author and the publisher.

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  57. 57. HumboldtCountyBUDtoker 01:55 AM 2/17/10

    china is asking for it..............
    they live right next to japan yet the still think its cool to fuck around with nukes. if you arnt as big as america, you shouldnt be blowing shit up as big as a 3 mega-ton bomb. If china plays with fire, most likely their going to get burned......

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  58. 58. HumboldtCountyBUDtoker 01:59 AM 2/17/10

    china is asking for it..............
    they live right next to japan yet the still think its cool to fuck around with nukes. if you arnt as big as america, you shouldnt be blowing shit up as big as a 3 mega-ton bomb. If china plays with fire, most likely their going to get burned......

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  59. 59. HumboldtCountyBUDtoker 02:09 AM 2/17/10

    china should not have nukes. unless they will only use it on their soil......
    If you havnt blown a nuke up in battle then you shouldnt even have one because you dont even know how to begin to comprehend what its like......
    so according to my logic, USA should have nukes because they are the cops of the world.... and china shouldnt. and defintley not russia or north korea

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  60. 60. HumboldtCountyBUDtoker in reply to ald231 02:30 AM 2/17/10

    hey PAL, listen, we blew up some islands....... big deal. i meen sure we probably killed some people in the process of making our super-weapon, however its not our mainland. blowing a giant bomb on the mainland is beyond stupid. yea we blew up some a-bombs in Nevada, but they wernt as big as the ones china dropped on their mainland, AND NOBODY LIVES THERE. when we blow up somthing big, we stand back and take all the perspectives and viewpoints we can think of, then we blow it up. thats why when we want to test h-bombs, bigger than china could even know, we go out to some islands in the biggest ocean in the world. im sure there was some crazy fallout that spread and did its thing, but thats just a part of the game....... you see as an AMERICAN, i feel that it would be extremely easy for my government to sit back and cloud my view with lies and coverups, so if i was chinese in their type of government id be wonder what is going on? why does that government act the way it does? and how could i turn it around and get real rights that mean somthing and will be with me untill i die? (move to america?). anyways china needs to just set the nuke down and calm themselves. also they should talk to japan and then see how cool nukes are.

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  61. 61. mike cook 07:22 AM 5/1/10

    I had an older friend once who was in the US army during the 1950's who had been within about 1.5 miles of a small nuclear atomic bomb blast as part of an exericize with 3,000 other soldiers.

    The troops were in open-top trenches and they hunkered in the bottom of them. Some of their vehicles were left in the open and some were protected with various materials at hand. He was impressed with the blast effects but didn't think that they got dusted due to strong winds that day that quickly dispersed the fall out cloud away from them.

    During those years my wife was an army brat at Dugway Proving Ground in Utah and they would be cautioned to stay indoors when the fall out was coming from Nevada. In the 1970's this resulted in the controversial downwinder lawsuits in Utah which ended in a lot of families which had lost family members to cancer getting big settlements from the government.

    The controversial part of these payouts is that the cancer rates in the rural areas of Utah most affected were actually lower than the US national rates. But the trial lawyers for the victims argued that these people were non-smoking, non-drinking Mormons and the cancer rate should therefore be as low as rates among Mormons living in states like Florida. At any rate, for several decades any family in Utah who lost a member to any cancer at all would get a big government check if they went to the considerable trouble of getting all the paperwork in order. People whose loved ones had their cause of death lazily put down as "natural causes" by hospitals that rarely did autopsies could get pretty upset when they found out later this kept them out of the money.

    This whole debate is clouded by the fact that all dust, even non-radioactive dust, increases the incidence of lung cancer when inhaled, and Utah is an exceedingly dusty place.

    The Chernobyl disaster in Ukraine is harder to evaluate because the local residents in the area were farmers exposed to a lot of agricultural dust and, worse yet, they tended to smoke and drink rather a lot.

    The Russians were famous for testing nuclear bombs not near some divisions of their own soldiers, but directly on top of them! Apparently the Kremlin wanted to see how many soldiers could be completely buried in their trenches and still dig their way out.

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  62. 62. AceHoffman 09:54 PM 2/28/11

    Our own tests here in the U.S. produced downwinders, too.. we are all downwinders... and so-called "underground" tests breached the surface about one in eight times -- sometimes fiercely, throwing up all sorts of additional combinations of radioactive elements into the atmosphere... It would be nice to see S.A. report on increased cancers and other ailments around America's operating nuclear power plants... there are some reports out there already and more need to be done... but (not all that unlike in China) the subject is being suppressed and ignored by U.S. government officials and the mainstream press. Also, I don't trust the Radiation Effects Research Foundation (RERF) very much, because they trust the basic data from the Hiroshima studies to determine a lot of things, and those studies were biased to begin with, the real data never having been collected in the first place, such as from stillbirths, infant mortalities and miscarriages in the first five years after the bomb struck...

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  63. 63. AntonAntonovich 03:02 PM 2/2/13

    This article is ridiculous, and I'm amazed it was published in Scientific American.

    First of all, Xinjiang is an enormous, sparsely-populated place. It spans an area of over 1.5 million square kilometers, most of which is empty, uninhabitable desert. For comparison, that's more than five times the area of the state of New Mexico, where the US conducted its first nuclear tests.

    Second of all, although 20 million people live in Xinjiang, almost all of the population is clustered into a few cities on the northern and western edges of the Tarim Basin. In other words, outside of the cities, the population is almost zero.

    And finally, Lop Nur, being located on the eastern tip of the Taklamakan Desert, is in the middle of an empty, barren wasteland, hundreds of miles away from the nearest permanent settlement. Anyone who has been to the Taklamakan desert would understand that this is an empty, uninhabitable place - it's literally thousands of miles of shifting sand dunes.

    I suspect Takada's "extrapolation" was simply assuming that Xinjiang's population is evenly distributed over its entire area, which is laughable when you consider that most of Xinjiang's area is covered by the vast Taklamakan desert. It's the typical kind of error from an academic who has no knowledge of real-world conditions (and as the article says, he never went to China himself).

    This article is an example of lazy "scientific" journalism and the Scientific American should be embarrassed for having published it. My previous esteem for this publication is gone now that I'm aware of its low standards and lack of fact-checking.

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