Several companies are vying for an opportunity to put to rest this last concern, which they refer to as "range anxiety." While plug-in hybrids could be successful recharging via a 220-volt outlet, or even a standard 110-volt connection, Monrovia, Calif.-based AeroVironment, Inc., is betting that all-electric vehicles will need their own fast-charging infrastructure in order to be successful. Such an infrastructure would include kiosks that look something like today's gas pumps but could produce 400 to 600 volts, enough electricity to recharge an electric vehicle battery pack in minutes, says Kristen Helsel, AeroVironment's director of electric vehicle chargers.
AeroVironment has met with some success in its plans to develop these kiosks. The U.S. Patent and Trademark Office earlier this week granted the company a patent for technology designed to gather data from an electric car or its charger and use the data to determine whether the rate of charge is optimized for the vehicle's performance, the battery's long-term health and the local utility company's power availability. In May, Washington, D.C.'s Department of Transportation, Nissan North America and AeroVironment announced a partnership that they expect will lead to at least 100 fast-charging kiosks throughout D.C. by 2011. The district is also pledging to add Nissan's Leaf to its fleet.
AeroVironment, which helped GM design the ill-fated EV-1, thinks the time is right for electric vehicles and is even working with GM again, this time to develop its all-electric Impact vehicle ("Impact" was also the pre-production name for the EV-1). "Working in electric vehicles' favor this time around is a political environment that appears to be encouraging the use of greener modes of transportation," Helsel says.
Battery swaps
Palo Alto, Calif.-based Better Place promises a different approach to creating an electric car infrastructure by proposing to build drive-through battery exchange stations that use robots on an automated track that slide under the car to swap out weak batteries for newly charged ones within minutes. (The company has produced a video demonstrating this procedure.) Better Place would own the batteries and be responsible for recharging them, taking that responsibility out of drivers' hands, says Sven Thesen, director of Better Place's utility operations and sustainability strategy. According to the company's plan, a driver would sign up for access to this service at the time he or she purchases an electric vehicle and would be charged for a plan similar to the way cell phone services are structured.
Better Place also sells charging posts that could be installed at homes or businesses. "We, as the infrastructure provider, will own and operate these charge stations and swap stations," Thesen says. He claims that the company has already installed 1,000 charge posts in Israel and signed up 30 companies, including IBM and Nike, in that country to provide its charging services to their employees. Israel Railways earlier this month announced that it will install 220 Better Place charging stations at various train stations throughout the country.
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Add CommentNow if you had our 220V 13 amp domestic supply you wouldn't have a problem!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhy can't the auto manufacturers build the car where it can recharge the batteries itself? Place a solar panel on the car that will continuelly provide a charge to the battery and they can also install a small wind propelled motor that will produce power to the batter while the car is moving. This motor can capture the wind the car produces while it is moving down the road. Gas stations can install outlets and have the power company install a power meter, like the one on the side of your house, that will caculate the power drainage and tell the customer how much power they used and the gas station can charge them just like they do for gas pumped into the car. Why are these people so confused in how to charge their battery when the answer is right infront of them every time they pay their power bill of fill up their car with gas.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIts pretty basic. Start with plug-in hybrids. Gas stations will offer both charging and diesel/petrol. Market forces will do the rest. I.e. If its cheaper to charge the demand will grow and more and more Stations will offer the service eventually all stations will offer this alternative or lose business. Govts could help by subsidising the introduction at first.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisErm James. The output of covering your entire car in top dollar space-grade solar cells doesn't come close to cutting it. And a propeller on the back of a vehicle... well, you're shooting for perpetual motion here. All you wind up with is more mechanical and aerodynamic drag for the car to work against. Adding a prop only decreases the efficiency of the vehicle.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf anyone is confused...
I read that Toyota(?) actually tried to connect solar roof to hybrid car battery for a new model but it was generating electromagnetic noise for some reason (like cellphone reception etc around having problem). So they will only connect it to air condition etc.; it would not be used to recharge the main battery.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe electric car is a utility scam worse than Enron to boost demand unnecessarily. Unworkable battery technology will drive up basic electricity costs and not solve the problems of CO2 pollution, the way fuel cells do. For the numbers, read:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe Reality Behind the Chevy Volt's 230 MPG
http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/chevy-volt-230/929
Among other, more realistic, blogs...
I think there are many solutions and many problems.Charging a vehicle will take longer than putting gas in your car today.the line to charge up would be a problem.I would advise the government to offer tax credits to motels and hotels that create charging depots in their parking areas. Anybody that is 200 miles from home might want a room for the night too...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe comments about hydrogen, either in fuel cells or an internal combustion engine, leave the biggest problem to others to solve: where do you get the hydrogen? The big commercial processes start with fossil fuels, and no doubt that's where it comes from for the few hydrogen filling stations.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOh yes, there's electrolysis; um, where does the electricity come from? And people have been working for decades to improve the efficiency of electrolysis and it still isn't great.
If we have to start with electricity why not just charge plug-in hybrid car batteries with it? For most commutes, that's good enough --- charge at home overnight.
The infrastructure required is the "last 25' problem". Contrary to common notions, most charging will be done at home. An ordinary dryer plug 240V/30A will be more than sufficient for 95% of ev users. Most homes have this now. The larger problem will be for existing multi-dwelling condos where parking lots may not have enough existing outlets or capacity. Smart circuit re-wiring should get around building distribution panel capacity limitations.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLook at the leading building code requirements the City of Vancouver adopted in July. Starting in 2011 all new condos must have EV outlets in 20% of parking stalls.
The costs to consumers are not that significant, in contrast to the annual gasoline savings of $1200+ How many more years will you be driving for?
The other consumer value will be longevity of your new electric car. It should outlast you if you don't smash it up. If you do the motor/controller components can be used for conversions of ICE cars. Like the early days of the computer industry, battery technology will improve in leaps and bounds for the first decade or two. It will only get better and cheaper.
<<Let's hope the manufacturers don't load up the electrical loads on cars like some software companies did with memory requirements for our supposedly faster computers!>>
@ Forlornehop I Have 240V 40 amp in my garage, much better than 13 Amp
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@JamesDavis Solar on oa car does not make sense -- you can't cary enough panels on a car to make it worthwhile. Solar on a house, garage, or parking structure DOES make sense. As for your windmills idea, the drag penalty will more than offset anhy gains. thermodynamics, dude.
ECK138 - You remember the old generator that came with your bicycle headlight? Gears and bearings can cut down on a lot of drag and you hide the generator with the turbo fan inside the car, just like they did with the old generators, and this turbo fan generator catches the air that comes through a hole in some part of the car. There is no windmill idea; it will not mess with your thermodynamics, and unlike most of your minds, it is not a perpetual motion motor neither. You can put the solar panels on top of your car and recharge your battery while you are at work, or the company you work for can place them on the roof of the garage where you park your car, they can do this as a courtesy. Solar panel, as with everything else, will come down in price when mass produced. The solar panel caculator is now as cheap as a pack of cigarettes. Get a little foresight and use your imagination.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisElectric cars offer the best opportunity to regulate and control the production of greenhouse gasses. There are millions of vehicles out there now each burning fuel and adding CO2 to the atmosphere...If they were electric powered we would only have to be concerned with the emissions at the source of the electric charge.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisjabailo, the electric car is not an electric utility scam, nor is the electric car the same thing as a hybrid gas-electric car. A Purely electric car should be boon to utilities, yes, because they can use smart charging to shift charging to times of low overall demand. But the economics of such cars is sound. If a conspiracy exists, it is not to support electric cars, but it may be that of car-makers and oil corps. keeping this far more efficient method from gaining traction. In , even the article's suggestion that refueling is a problem is bunk. Electric cars for cities cover 95% of commuting trips at about $0.03/mile; and the rest can simply drive plain gas cars or a Volt-like hybrid at $0.60/mile. Driving between cities? Rent a car from all you have saved.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisReminds me of an article in 50-100-150 Years Ago that I saw several years back: the lack of roads was once considered a constraint on the growth of personal automobile use. The infrastructure will evolve as usage increases and technology improves, as long as there is sufficient incentive to move to electric vehicles for both consumers and the auto industry. As we have seen in the computer industry, the evolution of technology will offer significant opportunities for manufacturers to boost sales by introducing new models for many years to come.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisjabailo and tedc, the electric car is not an electric utility scam, nor is the electric car the same thing as a hybrid gas-electric car. A purely electric car should be boon to utilities, yes, only because they can use smart in homes charging to shift charging to times of low overall demand. But the economics of such cars is sound. If a conspiracy exists, it is not supporting electric cars, but (car-makers and oil corps.) keeping this far more efficient method from gaining traction with hydrogen nonsense. The suggestion that refueling is a big problem is really bunk. Electric cars in cities and their burbs will cover 95% of commuting trips at about $0.03/mile; and the rest can simply drive plain gas cars or a Volt-like hybrid at $0.60/mile. Driving between cities on occasion? Simply rent a car from all you saved on gas.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCorvallis Oregon is moving forward with EV-readiness by EV charging stations in our capital budget and partnerships that may provide more infrastructure. As the Mayor, I drive a NEV and installed solar panels that provide for home electricity, Mayor Mobile (the NEV) and the next EV or PHEV for longer range. Payback period on solar panels drops dramatically when foregone gasoline purchases are taken into account. Private EV investment in EV infrastructure is also occurring in Corvallis. Check out the 2006 Pacific Northwest National Labs study relating to grid capacity for this changeover. Mayor Tomlinson
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe idea of using solar in parking lots to recharge cars sounds very interesting. When I was at Disney World (the happiest place on earth, and the most expensive) in April I paid $12 to park in the sun and would gladly have paid an extra $2 to be under the shade of a solar farm. If it also put just 4 kWh into my car (at a cost of 50 cents per) I would be overjoyed and Disney would have gotten huge tax breaks for building the system, not to mention getting the carbon offsets etc. Also, parking garages can and will install outlets where you will swipe your parking ticket and pay for your charge with your parking. Just think of the billboards, "Only 16 cents per kWh while you park!!!", and yes, they will charge a premium to recover their costs.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBest solar will do is to trickle charge the accessories battery -it couldn't do the whole battery pack and if it did part of the pack, battery balancing would be an issue for lithiums. You'd need a lot of PV sheets and that would add to the expense of the car., let alone weight unless it's integrated into the glass/roof like on some concept EVs. Lithium phosphate or polymer is the best one can get for now. I have phosphate non-volatile batteries in my EV conversion with a 16A suck from the charger to charge my pack in about 7 hours overnight (plugs in via standard 20A household socket). Better Place may have a fast battery swap-over but the infrastructure is expensive and like oil, the people will pay in taxes etc, still, it's better than coughing all the way to work in gas guzzlers. Though not everyone can do this, a bunch of solar panels on the roof of your house pumping 16A using a 4000W inverter will give you minimum cost energy to drive around, and for me that's about 80 miles, all I need for my round-the-town drive. Check out my ev conversion, http://www.convertyourgasguzzler.com.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt's true that a lot of hydrogen is produced from natural gas. But did you know half the electricity in the U.S. (52%) comes from coal? So both batteries and hydrogen have the same challenge.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDid you know that in about 25 states, the mix of the ways electricity is produced make a battery car emit MORE CO2 than a gasoline car (but in about 25 states, it's less).
Also, did you know that even when you make hydrogen from natural gas, overall, it emits 50% fewer emissions than a gasoline car--in any state.
There are unique advantages and challenges to both batteries and hydrogen. That's why we need both!
You know, it's true that a lot of hydrogen is produced from natural gas. But did you know half the electricity in the U.S. (52%) comes from coal. So both batteries and hydrogen have the same challenge.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDid you know that in about 25 states, the mix of the ways electricity is produced make a battery car emit MORE CO2 than a gasoline car (but in about 25 states, it's less).
Also, did you know that even when you make hydrogen from natural gas, overall, it emits 50% fewer emissions than a gasoline car--in any state.
There are unique advantages and challenges to both batteries and hydrogen. That's why we need both!
You can fill your car up with gas in 10-15 minutes. How long to charge a battery? More like a few hours..... So much for long distance travelling.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMaybe it would be better to outfit motels with charging stations? That way, you can get some sleep while you wait.
James, attaching a propeller to the back of a car in an effort to charge the car as it drives only works in your imagination.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI agree with you 100% on the solar application though. It should be used wherever possible.
About a decade ago, I designed a solar car similar to the successful M-Pulse design for commuting to work. With the available space-grade cells available at the time, the cost was to be about $20k in materials. What I found though, was that the actual charging during operation was to be pretty limited. When parked, the solar array was able to be raised and tilted at the sun for better charging. So optimally, it was a car while driving, and a self-contained charging station while parked.
...but instead of building the thing, I decided to wait til improvements in solar cell production let the really nice cells trickle down to the consumer level. Which we're starting to see.
Still, I think the solution for electric infrastructure is standardized cartridge batteries and hot-swap "filling stations". Fast, safe, easy, mass-produceable, preserves the existing infrastructure. Gives existing businesses something to sell, and an opportunity to move into the future with minimal expense.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisEnterprising companies would likely build small unmanned self-serve battery kiosks as well...
But that's all near-future stuff.
What replaces clunky, dangerous automobiles and toxic, sprawling asphalt roads is the exciting stuff.
A 100% solution is not required. If 20% of the population owns an EV to commute (w/ a gas/diesel vehicle for secondary longer trips) fuel demand will drop significantly.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI think those 20% are likely to get by recharging at home.
I think for battery swap idea (for fast battery recharging) to work, unlike the electric car itself, the battery should come w/ the car as a long term rent contract (similar to what happens when you buy a cellphone) that done w/ the company which runs the network of battery swap stations. That way there would not be problems like leaving your new battery and getting an old one. Also you would not even care what type of battery is it as long as it provides the amount of power agreed upon (the company automatically switch to new type of batteries as the tech progress). Also, it would not be problem if a battery reaches the end of its lifetime because it would be the job of the company to replace old batteries.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAlso, as a bonus, selling the electric cars w/o the full buying price of the battery would make them a lot cheaper.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis interesting article points that the efficiency in converting electricity from a battery into mechanical power is of 75%, but others signal that to produce the electricity, another kind of energy, coal, hydroelectric, nuclear, gas, solar, wind, waves or fuel is needed. It is correctly signaled that the balance in terms of energy savings can be negative, as there are loses in producing electricity, loses in transporting it, loses in transforming it to a device-friendly energy, and storage and recovery loses. Gasoline and fuel are a good way of storing energy to be transformed into mechanical power, but: can anybody spread the figures of efficiency involved in electric cars, from generation of electricity to the turn of your wheel? Hybrids are economical to operate, but nobody has clearly shown yet that a full electric car will result in energy savings and reduction of emissions, CO2 included. Technologies must be economical, just looking clean is not enough
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this75 % recovery from chemical (battery) to drive power as opposed to 20% from gasoline?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisVery misleading. The electricity has to get to the outlet first. What do you think the recovery from coal is? (60% of our current electrical grid is from coal-fired plants). It's close to 33%, at best (remember transmission losses are part of the e-generation equation). So what's 33% times 75%? i get 25% which is right where about where gasoline is. No one is going to get a break in e-rates for night charging, unless you're a commercial enterprise.
We'll eventually have to line our streets with "charge meters" that you plug like a parking meter, but EVs should be built with the ability to accept on the fly charging and exhaust venting from auxiliary generators we throw in the back when we go on an extended trip. Almost any of the new small and quiet generators will do but ETV Motors has a built in propane gas turbine for its extended range hybrid that is small, light, highly efficient and relatively clean burning that should be containerized for removal/independent sale to EV owners.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@ted c: Yes, charing will take a long time. That's why it will usually be done overnight while you sleep, or at the car park that the car is located when you are at work all day. It's also why Better Place will be complementing the charging stations with battery swap stations, which will swap the battery in LESS time that it takes to fill with petrol!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@BillR my comment immediately above applies to your comment too!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIsn't the solution obvious? We need an infastructure that allows exchanging batteries while continuing driving on a special lane. The lane should force to center the car above an exchanging system. This system could ressemble a mini train equiped with some simple robotics, running in a long gutter below the car, that adapts its speed to the car, locks to it, exchanges empty batteries with fresh ones, then detaches. If this smooth battery exchange occurs every 100 miles or so, the weight of the batteries and the car can be kept much lower, contributing seriously to the car's efficiency. All what is needed more is international standardisation, and an accounting and wireless communication system. The rest is feasible and affordable technology. A safety system, coordinated between car and train should guarantee safe handling of all eventualities. The car will need some intelligence and communication equipment. The system should also allow replacement by hand, or power plug reloading, as a backup.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHas professor Frank even spoken with better place about their plans? Their batteries take about 20 mins to recharge. With one battery swap every 2 minutes and two stations working at the same time they need about 40 batteries per site. Not a big ask, especially given that most times charging will be done at home. Has he read the Berkely study? Why did you choose him as an expert in the economics of charging infrastructure? 50 years for hybrids? Wake up and look at what is going on.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhy not do some charging as the vehicle moves since the kinetic energy and momentum can drive a generator -cum motor which can be connected to the power train through a drive that works in tandem with the battery drive.This will reduce the load on lithion batteries so that instead of 240 kilometers in one charge they can run upto 350-400 kilometers after a single charge at the home infrastructure as at present,thus extending the travel limit after a charge and reducing the need for infrastructure outside of home as such
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSURESHKUMAR.S,SCIENTIST AND ADVISER,NIIST,TRIVANDRUM,INDIA
Great article, we are building a model/report on ways to encourage private investment in public charging stations (www.projectgetready.com happy to take suggestions). What is the business case for a mall or big box retailer to spend $5K on a charging station (attract/retain customers, advertisement/branding, fee for charging/premium parking)? We've done some research that suggests the stations cost as much to install as they do to buy, so it's not an easy decision especially given how few PEVs we'll see on the road in the near term.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFor long distance(cross country) travel in an electric car how about the concept of turning your EV into a temporary Chevy Volt by renting a mobile generator from your local rent-all to tow behind your EV and charge the car's battery pack while you're motoring down the road. Of course you would have to stop at a service station every so often to replentish your generator's fuel supply. When you get to your destination, turn in the generator at the local rent-all and revert to home plug-in charging methods.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA gas turbine generator could be as small as a carry-on bag attached to a 5 gal. propane tank that could extend your EV range well beyond 250 miles even in an SUV. You only need a connection to an external tail pipe and some straps to hold down the tank and generator in your trunk/cargo space.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThey spoke during the last $4.00 gas hike that braking
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thiscould create electricity.
Why is there not a push to create perpetual motion cars?
Instead of spending trillions on electric replenishment
stations?
First of all keep the laws of thermodynamics in mind !! You cannot beat them. I have in my house 380 Volts and 63 Amperes
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thissince it was built 40 years ago ( 3 phase )
I doubt very much that the US grid could handle the additional load of many electric cars. Even with intelligent uses. My next electric car that I will have to buy in a little while
will have good old lead acid batteries, a speed of 20 miles and a range good enough to reach my restaurant, the supermarket etc. and come home, Dr.Kamlander@aon.at
Start here...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNew KB Home using lithium battery back up
http://sunpluggers.com/news/solar-home-of-future-makes-debut-in-california-0707
Go to...
Feed in Tariffs
http://solar.calfinder.com/blog/news/feed-in-tariffs-taking-net-metering-to-the-next-level/
Them to...1 Parking spot = 1 year of drive time
http://us.sanyo.com/Environmental-Solutions/Clean-Energy-Parking-Solutions
Then onto next discussion...
Solar charged robotics,,,, in the works...
Whoops, almost forgot the 20 million solar roof program...
and the jobs and what will we do with the extra income problem??...
Save that for another Scientific American issue....
If the car had a a bunch of watermill type wind generators (scoop type blades perpendicular to the wind) on the underside of the car with only half exposed while the other half just spins into a little pocket . The wind would pass under the car like it has to anyways and should not create any additional drag ( they may be noisy as hell though at high speeds....) Then, on top of that, a roof solar panel could provide a little additional power. Only problem then is its perpetual motion :) Enter a team of lawyers to slap you on the wrist and say NO. Bad dog! Or maybe if it only extended range and did not fully charge then it would be ok? If you could get 400+ miles instead of 200 miles it would be worth it.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMy question is that if you charge your car at home using wind and solar.... isn't that the same thing ( or at least VERY similar ) ? I mean I know its not connected to the car and you can't indefinitely drive.... which would require some kind of automated driving system... or like a crew of people in constant rotation anyways...
What if you turned parking spaces into solar carports ? Cover each parking space, with good sun exposure, with a roof that is solar panels. Now that would be pretty green :) It would shade your car and charge it. Paint would last longer... leather and interiors would last longer... all that black rubber would last longer.... not to mention that whomever builds these things can charge money for people to park there. Maybe like a "plug and pay" system.
Russell
in my reality no one way e.v. charging fits all mentality will work. this is a case of more complex is the easiest.let the vehical pick the method.1) how about this smart grid tuned to the e.v.s.the grid picks the method /location on your route for your approval.1)dedicated lane for e.v.s.,lane has a charging strip like bumper car rides. lane has charging/battery swap out kiosks all powered by solar/wind/geothermal/pond scum/etc.2)the turning axle can be a alternator.3)rooftop solar panel will only help not solve rapidly.4)deep discounts for sharing rides.FOLKS,IS IT CLEAR YET?VOTE OUT FOSSIL FUEL GOVERNMENT SLEEPER CELLS,COVERT BIG OIL PROFITS RUN OUR GOVT.YOU VOTED IRRESPONSIBLY SINCE THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION AND THE DAYS OF SKY-LAB, THE WORLDS BEST SOLAR PANEL DEMONSTRATION.WILL YOU ALL WAIT FOR CHINESE TO BUILD/SUPPLY/OPERATE THIS HUGE AMERICAN PROJECT OF STRATEGIC IMPORTANCE??? REMEMBER THE MANHATTAN AND THE T.V.A.PROJECTS??? WHO SOLD OUT WHOM TO WHOM??? THE U.S. CONDITION IS LIKE PRE-WWII FRANCE OVER-RUN BY 5th COLUMNISTS, COMMUNIST CHINA,WHOM WE HAVE WARRED/BATTLED TWICE ALREADY,[note Truman firing of Douglas MacArthur] IS OUR HITLER.READ ART OF WAR BY SUN-TSU VOTE THEM OUT!!! PROFESSIONAL POLITICIANS SUCK!!!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe president is correct in sidestepping hydrogen power. Although it's the most abundant element in the Universe, here on Earth it's all locked up in compounds. There are no hydrogen lakes or mines to tap and for this reason it is no more a source of energy than electricity is. Like electricity it must be produced by consuming some form of energy source ( oil gas coal etc ). And at present it is very expensive to produce and therefore very inefficient.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCome on smart people! Can't anyone get a genuine idea on how to charge an ev while in motion? Do we have to wait for the Koreans or Chinese to do that? Some of you got very close. A combination of Solar and wind energy sources could be the solution. Very warm. A genuine warm idea. Some doomsayers think it is impossible. These same doomsayers think it is impossible to have a practical EV on the road. Well, they are wrong. I love my practical VOLT and I can't wait to start fiddling with some kind of a mobile charger on it. I will wait a year I guess until the new smell of the car fades away :))
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this