My ear said the Clarity test car’s compressor whine was too obvious. Honda pledged to exorcise the noise before handing over the cars to consumers. On the other hand, cooling for the Clarity’s cache of lithium-ion batteries was silent—the opposite of the Equinox. The electric power steering was a bit touchy, but Honda seemed unconvinced that any correction was needed.
Honda says the four-passenger sedan will hit 60 miles per hour from a dead stop in just nine seconds. I found it lazier off the line than those numbers suggest. But I was surprised at how eager it seemed in mid-range speeds where most driving is done and where the compressor’s whine was minimal.
I also tested the Clarity’s handling on the twisting canyon roads northwest of Los Angeles and found the car to be agile and able to easily stay in its lane through corners. It wasn’t a sporting vehicle, though: for one thing, the low-rolling-resistance tires didn’t grip as well as conventional rubber would have. And that sensitive steering required frequent, small corrections. The average driver probably will be more interested in how well the car saves fuel, however.
In the end, the driving personalities of the two test vehicles, with a few exceptions, were close enough to those of ordinary gasoline-powered cars that if buyers ultimately reject fuel-cell machines, it won’t be because the cars seem unfamiliar from behind the wheel.
Note: This story was originally published with the title, "Fuel-Cell Cars".
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24 Comments
Add CommentIf it takes more power to create hydrogen fuel than the fuel itself can generate, then this does not solve our oil dependence problem. A viable alternative would be to combine two already successful technologies. A hybrid CNG car would reduce emmissions to almost insignificant levels, increase the range, and give the driver decent acceleration. All of this could be accomplished without a drop of oil. Our NG reserves are vast which could bye us generations to develop fuel cell technology. The only trade-off would be limited cargo space which isn't an issue for commuters.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJake,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisGenerations of natural gas are not available:
http://www.energyandcapital.com/articles/peak-natural-gas/529
The real solution is hydrogen fuel cell cars where the hydrogen comes from solar and wind power.
Greg Blencoe
Chief Executive Officer
Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc.
The hydrogen powered car will ultimately have to collect the water formed by the H2 O2 reaction. 5 kg hydrogen load will turn into 45 kg water. May be best to load the 40 kg Oxygen when the hydrogen is loaded. The reason for doing this is that electrolysis of water to produce hydrogen and oxygen tends to concentrate deuterium in the electrolys cell bottoms. This process is not efficient if none of the electrolysis hydrogen is returned to the next lower cell as water. If the condensate from the cars is collected and returned to the next lower electrolysis cell, the process automatically concentrates deuterium. Expensive heavy water is then produced for free in huge amounts. This makes it possible to quickly build 20,000 GWe heavy-water piles, such as the CANDU type. Also the Chornobyl type reactors can be build with heavy water in their steam cycle, thus eliminating their nasty positive void coefficient. Heavy water moderated reactors are very frugal with neutrons so they become near-breeders with uranium fuel. If fueled with thorium, heavy-water reactors can become full breeders. The thorium-U233 fuel cycle does have some unpleasant characteristics relative to the U238-plutonium breeder cycle.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisGreg,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIn an ideal world, there would be a hydrogen fuel cell car in every American driveway. However, the baby steps that the 100 Equinox and 200 FCX's represent does not address the current problem faced by todays commuters. We need an affordable, reliable car that gets great gas mileage and low emmissions. Unlike Jamie Lee Curtis ( I'm a big fan), your typical commuter could never get on the FCX short list or afford the $600 monthly nut. Even if the FCX rolled of the assembly line and the price affordable, can todays technology produce enough fuel to satiate even a fraction of commuter cars? My point was not to denegrate hydrogen technology, but merely point out that in the interim, existing resources and technology can have an immediate impact on our oil dependence and on the environment. Also, according to http://www.platts.com/Natural%20Gas/News/6986275.xml?src=Natural+Gasrssheadlines1, not only is our reserve high, it's increasing rapidly due to new drilling techniques. As a commuter in and out of NYC each weekday, my frustration is rising with the price of gas, and my patience wearing thin like the promises of yet another e-car (other than the $100k Tesla). Help seems to be just out of reach of our fingertips.
Jake,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFair enough. A lot boils down to who is right regarding how much natural gas the country has. But it seems very dangerous to assume that the optimistic projections are going to be right. If they are wrong, the country would have not only a HUGE transportation problem, but also an electricity/home heating problem.
So the country doesn't rely too much on natural gas, I would support running a lot more new vehicles on natural gas between now and 2015 (they would obviously be around much longer than that).
However, the focus beginning in 2015 with new vehicles should be on hydrogen fuel cells where the hydrogen comes from a clean and abundant source of energy such as solar or wind power.
How do you feel about this?
Greg Blencoe
Chief Executive Officer
Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc.
could any power be derived from the turning of driveshaft or all other turning parts to refill compressed air tanks without reverting to gas or depending on batteries ?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDid you hear about the hydrogen fuel cell research in Oregon - I think, using raw sewage? That is cool shit. The process uses 75% less energy than the traditional water electrolysis method of producing hydrogen, and can be done at a much lower cost, making it a good candidate for hydrogen fuel production. In the lab, researchers are already close to the Department of Energy’s goal of $2 to $3 per gasoline gallon equivalent for hydrogen fuel.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHydrogen Discoveries, Inc 2015 for hydrogen is very likely and make sense. I have been working in Alternatives since the 1970. I hope as a country we will finally do something this time to get away from oil. Oil is the enemy when they can as a war bankrupt us.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNatural gas is relatively easy to manufacture. After all, it is simply methane.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDrill domestically, and this problem goes away. The solution is simple. Except for the propaganda too many people have bought into that plant food is toxic.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisgreg,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf hydrogen fuel could be produced on a massive scale and disbursed through fueling stations or, better yet, personal hydrogen fuel units, you would change the course of humanity the likes that haven't been seen since the advent of the wheel or penicillin. Really. Oil companies would dissolve. Militaries would stand down. The earth would begin to heal itself. And this would only be the tip of the iceberg (which might not melt after all). The problem with clean, sustainable energy sources such as solar and wind are the restrictions that mother nature puts on them. Unless you can create a high altitude tether configuration that can reach extreme winds while bypassing clouds to maximize turbine speed and solar capacity, it seems that "sustainable" is optimistic. The Honda CNG presently sold in certain parts of America offers a residential NG filling station (PHILL- can't remember what the acronym stands for). This convenience is tempered by the limited capacity of the tank which restricts range. A hybrid adaptation of the CNG would increase range while decreasing consumption and emissions. And this could be mass produced now. A simple and cost effective adapter can be fitted to an existing gas engine and a CNG tank placed in the trunk. And presto! No oil consumption! Granted, this doesn't answer our long term goals. But it is a viable alternative to kissing up to the Saudi princes or listening to the ramblings of President Chavez (or was that Emperor). I wish you all the best with Hydrogen Discoveries and hope that your 2015 target date comes to fruition. If it does, I'll be on line with Jamie Lee.
Jake- citizen,taxpayer,NYC commuter,voter,consumer
Greg,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf hydrogen fuel could be mass- produced and distributed, the course of mankind would be altered the likes of which haven’t been seen since the advent of the wheel or penicillin. Really! Oil companies would dissolve. Militaries would stand down. The earth would begin healing itself. And this would only be the tip of the iceberg (which might not melt after all).
The problems with clean, sustainable energies such as solar and wind power are the restrictions that nature sets for them. Unless a high altitude tether configuration can be established to take advantage of the extreme and sustained winds while avoiding cloud conditions to maximize turbine and solar collector capacities, “sustainable” will remain an optimistic term. I’m sure you have a great game plan, especially with a 2015 target date. I don’t doubt your expertise in developing hydrogen fuel.
In the mean time, Honda’s present Civic CNG (sold in NY and Ca only) offers a residential fueling system (PHILL- can’t remember what the acronym stands for). This convenience is tempered by the 8- gallon fuel tank, which restricts range. A hybrid adaptation of the CNG would increase range while decreasing fuel consumption and emissions. This can be mass-produced now. An adapter to the fuel system, a, fuel tank in the trunk, and any gasoline driven engine gets transformed into a CNG automobile. Even though natural gas is finite, I would rather switch to NG than kiss up to the Saudi princes or listen to the mad ramblings of Chavez just to purchase their depleted reserves of oil.
Greg, I wish you the best at Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc and hope that your 2015 target date comes to fruition. If it does, you’ll see me on line with Jamie Lee.
Jake
-citizen,taxpayer,NYC commuter,voter,consumer
Greg,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf hydrogen fuel could be mass- produced and distributed, the course of mankind would be altered the likes of which haven’t been seen since the advent of the wheel or penicillin. Really! Oil companies would dissolve. Militaries would stand down. The earth would begin healing itself. And this would only be the tip of the iceberg (which might not melt after all).
The problems with clean, sustainable energies such as solar and wind power are the restrictions that nature sets for them. Unless a high altitude tether configuration can be established to take advantage of the extreme and sustained winds while avoiding cloud conditions to maximize turbine and solar collector capacities, “sustainable” will remain an optimistic term. I’m sure you have a great game plan, especially with a 2015 target date. I don’t doubt your expertise in developing hydrogen fuel.
In the mean time, Honda’s present Civic CNG (sold in NY and Ca only) offers a residential fueling system (PHILL- can’t remember what the acronym stands for). This convenience is tempered by the 8- gallon fuel tank, which restricts range. A hybrid adaptation of the CNG would increase range while decreasing fuel consumption and emissions. This can be mass-produced now. An adapter to the fuel system, a, fuel tank in the trunk, and any gasoline driven engine gets transformed into a CNG automobile. Even though natural gas is finite, I would rather switch to NG than kiss up to the Saudi princes or listen to the mad ramblings of Chavez just to purchase their depleted reserves of oil.
Greg, I wish you the best at Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc and hope that your 2015 target date comes to fruition. If it does, you’ll see me on line with Jamie Lee.
Jake
-citizen,taxpayer,NYC commuter,voter,consumer
NG is not a great answer for transportation either. Look at what ethanol did to food prices. Do you want your home gas bill to skyrocket because of the new found demand for cars?.................. I didn't think so.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNatural Gas is NOT a good answer for this! Do you want your home gas bill to skyrocket, when the demand for gas goes up?................. Didn't think so!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCompare this to ethanol- Are you aware of the effect ethanol has had on food prices? There's not even a whole lot of people using ethanol either! Think about the consequences.......... A tank of natural gas used in a car could probably heat some homes for over a month! We need something new, like hydrogen.
I don't know many people who care, at this point, about the 0-60 performance of an alternative-fuel vehicle. Most of us are just hoping the auto industry will deliver anything at all, soon enough and in enough quantity to do us and the rest of the planet any real good. I don't care if it's hybrid, plug-in hybrid, hydrogen, all-electric, clean diesel, natural gas, compressed air or rubber bands. We just need at least one car company to get serious and take some chances. I am not optimistic.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI remember that in the seventies energy alarm there was an article in Scientific American predicting that 100mpg was attainable since electronic technologies would increase fuel metering efficiency by some 30% , together with weight reduction should achieve 100 mpg .
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhat has manifested is that improved technology has increased engine for more acceleration and weight has increased for reasons of safety , sound deadening etc , Do we need 0 to sixty in less than 10 seconds and the level of silence , even safety . To some extent this has been gilding the lilly
I have also thought that water collection would be necessary, but for another reason.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYours are the first calculations I have seen for the amount of H2O. I only wish I knew how many kgs of water ar produced per mile. It would seem to me that if many or most vehicles used fuel cells we would have wet/icy streets in the winter and the steam produced would cause or add to foggy conditions.
If we keep long term in mind and look into research, we need tto encourage every effort for the fuel cell to come to market as early as possible. The pressure of cpmpeting economies would compel the research to churn out effeciencies and make the fuel cell/alternate energy a proven and dependable technology. We know we are in the very early stages, bit without this committment, it is as well that we would be waiting for oil to run out and then start worryng about the consequences.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis would also mean that reasearch on alternate sources for generating electricity needs to be pushed and these thechnologies has to complement each other.
Besides the hydrocarbon fuel issues, there isn't enough platinum available to mass produce enough fuel cells for everyone to drive around in. Top that off with the fact that platinum is even more geographically constrained than oil deposits and you've got serious geo-political problems.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNo gearbox !? did I read you right ? And I suppose this is put on the "Plus" side in adverts ! For the toddlers reading this, I guess I must point-out that no conceivable engine can possibly deliver its maximum power to a hugely varying load, without a variable gear system of some kind.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis is because however sci-fi it might be, it will have but one "family" of Torque versus Revs. curves. One curve for each "Throttle" position.
It takes Energy to create things. The Power that it takes is dependant upon how long it takes to do the job. i.e. "Power" is Rate of use of Energy. ie - I am paid 500 quid to build a wall. If I build it in a week, then the Power supplied to me is 500 quid/week (for one week). If it takes 10 weeks then I am supplied with 50 quid/week - for 10 weeks. The "Power" is 50 "quidaweek"
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSimilarly 50 Joules per second is a Power (rate of flow of energy) of 50 Watts
Everything that is made is an investment of Energy - not Power. It's like confusing "Litres" with "litres per second".
It makes nonsense !
A fuel cell of course is another investment of Energy, which has to come from somewhere. If I decide to use a fuel cell as part of my wind-energy system, then its cost must be added-in, and this will increase the time taken for the system to pay for itself, in any given site. Current - 80m high - "windfarms" return - during their entire life - only a fraction of the energy required to replace them. But they look "cool".
It used to be 2 to 32 not 5 to 40, the ratio of the weights of the gases from water. But I suppose its like neutrons and Chernobyl and all that stuff - doesn't really matter in a man's world !
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThanks for the great idea with U233. Can't wait to have a go !
As it is, the exhaust gases from burning oils are water and CO2. We somehow survived the steam train era, so maybe find something closer to home to worry about ?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou arn't the last word in neurosis, though. There was a guy the other day worrying that too many "windmills" might "disturb the weather patterns. I hope he irons his socks regularly.