, which the company continues to test and plans to make available in 2015.)
SPRINTER: Daimler's entry into the hydrogen-powered car market is the Sprinter (seen here), which the company continues to test and plans to make available in 2015.
Image: © DAIMLER AG
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It's amusing to reduce the development of next-generation electric- or hydrogen-powered cars to a binary paper-versus-plastic decision, but the companies making these cars and the infrastructure to support them are hoping there will be room for both. Hydrogen cars, in particular, have had a bumpy road thus far—the Obama administration has been at odds with Congress over whether to fund hydrogen fuel-cell research. Meanwhile, the first commercial models are not expected to hit the road until 2015, a few years after their hybrid and all-electric counterparts.
To help steer hydrogen back into the spotlight, carmaker Daimler, AG, teamed with the German government Wednesday at a press conference hosted in Washington, D.C., by the National Hydrogen Association* to present their case for the continued development of hydrogen fuel cell cars and the infrastructure to support them.
Public perception of late seems to be that battery-powered vehicles will be the key players in displacing gasoline-dependent internal combustion engines, "but we believe that hydrogen will also play a role, and that the two technologies are complementary," Klaus Bonhoff, managing director of Germany's National Organization Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Technology (NOW), said during the event, which Daimler sponsored. The German federal government created NOW, which is largely funded by private sector businesses, to manage hydrogen and other fuel-cell technologies developed by the German National Innovation Program (NIP). "In the public discussion people tend to say that industry is not interested in hydrogen, but it's the opposite. Activities are actually increasing," Bonhoff said.
NOW sees hydrogen cars as a key element in the German government's plans to reduce the nation's carbon dioxide emissions 80 percent by 2050. One significant step along the way will be for Germans to be driving vehicles that produce no more than 60 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometer by 2030, Bonhoff said, adding that hydrogen-powered cars have the potential to emit as little as 40 grams of CO2 per kilometer. He noted that even highly optimized internal combustion engines are not likely to emit less than 110 grams of CO2 per kilometer.
The hydrogen could come from a number of sources, including renewable energy such as a wind-to-hydrogen system and biofuels. "Hydrogen is a commodity in some industries," Bonhoff said. "We need to figure out how to make it available to the transportation industry."
One of the primary difficulties of introducing to the market an alternative to gas-powered cars—whether powered by a battery or fuel cell—is building up the number of new cars on the road while building out a new fueling infrastructure. Hydrogen supplies could be trucked in initially, but eventually pipelines carrying the fuel to filling stations would be required, Bonhoff said.
Perhaps the main impediment to success is breaking out of the chicken-and-egg cycle: Providers of the hydrogen infrastructure want assurances that there will be a lot of hydrogen-powered vehicles on the road, but carmakers cannot sell the cars without having the infrastructure in place. From Daimler's perspective, "the fueling infrastructure has not become real to the extent that we have wanted," Ron Grasman, Daimler's manager of fuel-cell vehicles, said at the event. Still, he added that the German government's stimulus plan is expected to fund new hydrogen filling stations to complement the four already located within the country.
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18 Comments
Add CommentThe conversion of:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thiswater + green electricity --> H2 --> to H2 fuel tank --> Fool Cell --> Battery --> electric motor uses 4 times more energy than the much simpler & VASTLY CHEAPER:
green electricity --> battery --> electric motor.
See:
http://www.hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/sb76/workshop/brooks_nov2.pdf
The Hydrogen Economy – Energy and Economic Black Hole - by Alice Friedemann:
http://www.energybulletin.net/2401.html
A couple quotes:
"...No matter how it's been made, hydrogen has no energy in it. It is the lowest energy dense fuel on earth (5). At room temperature and pressure, hydrogen takes up three thousand more times space than gasoline containing an equivalent amount of energy (3). To put energy into hydrogen, it must be compressed or liquefied. To compress hydrogen to 10,000 psi is a multi-stage process that will lose an additional 15% of the energy contained in the hydrogen..."
"...Canister trucks ($250,000 each) can carry enough fuel for 60 cars (3, 13). These trucks weight 40,000 kg but deliver only 400 kg of hydrogen. For a delivery distance of 150 miles, the delivery energy used is nearly 20% of the usable energy in the hydrogen delivered. At 300 miles 40%. The same size truck carrying gasoline delivers 10,000 gallons of fuel, enough to fill about 800 cars (3)..."
Chevron calls itself "The Hydrogen Company". Oil companies invented the H2 economy concept. They no it is one of the best bait-and-switch scams ever. How do you think Big Oil got the California Zero-Emission Vehicle Mandate revoked. They promised they only needed "a few years" to have H2 Fuel Cell vehicles on the road by the millions, by 2010. Were it not for the H2 economy scam there would be millions of electric vehicles on the road right now.
The only advantage to chemical fuels in a vehicle is increased range. Therefore logic dictates using concentrated liquid energy fuels, where electricity doesn’t supply sufficient range. Methanol contains 40% more H2 than liquid hydrogen and is dirt cheap and environmentally friendly. For those who think hydrogen is a panacea, escaped hydrogen reacts with hydroxyls in the upper atmosphere and removes them. Hydroxyls are one of the gases that reacts and removes methane. So a hydrogen economy may increase the longevity of the 25X stronger than CO2 GHG methane. and is also, like CFC’s, is an Ozone depleting chemical. And unlike CFC's it is the hardest gas to stop from leaking, and as a fuel the quantities used will be a million fold what CFC's were used for.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe important question is why are we wasting 10's of billions of dollars of valuable R&D funds on this H2 wacky stupidity, when we could be spending it on battery research, motors, Methanol Fuel cells and Extreme Efficiency Generator Engines and more effective Emissions Controls.
The people at Wall-Mart are no fools and know how to make a dollar, that is why they are taking the batteries out of their fork lift trucks and installing cool/fuel cells.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThank God they are not listenening to the Dim Witted Battery Dumbo's who have invested in the old technology and are now having a panic attack.
Lighten up, the old and new technologies will be running side by side and complimenting each other when electric vehicles become main stream.
Mike H. founder HYDROGENHEADS.
The advantage of natural gas is that you don't need new infrastructure you can fill up at home...making this true about hydrogen is both possible and the key to solving this problem...forget new infrastructure...use solar or some other energy to make more energy by splitting the waer molecule to fuel your house, use the hydrogen in your cars, and add the oxygen to the air in the home or let it be a harmless biproduct...thinking one problem one solution is archaic
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTotal electric cars are the smart persons way to go. You can recharge them from home in just a few minutes and the batteries will greatly improve in a very short period of time when demand calls for it, so, start flooding the market with total electric cars and watch how fast the new storage batteries arrive at your car store. Telsa Motors in California is still the greatest electric car manufacturing company in the world. They have advanced technology that will just blow your mind...450 miles between charges and can be recharged in 45 minutes or less. I'm not in such a great hurry that I can't sit and read a book on my new Apple slate while my new Telsa electric car charges.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPatience is a virtue and us tree huggers have a lot of patience when it comes to us drinking clean water, breathing clean air, and growing our foods in clean pollution free soil. Let's get those electric cars on the market so we can start cleaning up our environment. President Obama should greatly cut the budget on these other sources of worthless energy research projects and totally eliminate fossil fuel research and give all the money to companies researching and developing total electric cars, trains, busses, and airplanes. Old fossil fuel technology is rapeing and killing our planet. Let's get rid of it.
And you will waste 75% of your electricity input making, storing and processing the H2 through the Fuel Cell. Why not just go straight to the battery instead? As well as the huge expense & size of the extreme pressure fuel tanks ( 2 needed, one giant one at home & a smaller one on your vehicle) and the fuel cell. A nutty idea.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf the American auto makers had not spent all their R&D revenue on advertising we would have had more efficient vehicles 40 years ago!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSpiff
H2 is virtually always an intermediate step between generating electricity and making electricity. So are batteries. Natural gas can be transported by pipe because its molecule is to big to leak out of all the holes in the pipes. H2 requires a piping system that will never be made adequately leak proof. Local production of H2 will be as close as we get to "Distribution Infrastructure". My guess is that home battery banks will be cheaper than home generation of H2. I have a Physics degree from MIT, and am convinced that the physics of H2 cars are simply non-economic. I also believe that the H2 car projects around are simply gee-whiz, attention getting, vaguely fraudulent advertising to a non-understanding public that can't get beyond the H2O exhaust.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisH2 is virtually always an intermediate step between generating electricity and making electricity. So are batteries. Natural gas can be transported by pipe because its molecule is to big to leak out of all the holes in the pipes. H2 requires a piping system that will never be made adequately leak proof. Local production of H2 will be as close as we get to "Distribution Infrastructure". My guess is that home battery banks will be cheaper than home generation of H2. I have a Physics degree from MIT, and am convinced that the physics of H2 cars are simply non-economic. I also believe that the H2 car projects around are simply gee-whiz, attention getting, vaguely fraudulent advertising to a non-understanding public that can't get beyond the H2O exhaust.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe solution to the H2 infrastructure challenge will be shown in Via-Azul project (www.via-azul.eu) in Southern Spain (Andalucia), where electric energy, sufficiently produced by local concentrating solar power plants will be trasnmitted to any higway fueling station, via highway seperate Smart Grid (HVDC cables). At the fuelng stations the electrical energy will be converted in high capacity electrolysers to H2, available to internal combustion engine cars and fuel cell cars.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMoving fuel arrond in trucks or pipelines was yesterday..!
If this works for the EU, it works for the US as well...!!!;-)
Saludos P.K.
The solution to the H2 infrastructure challenge will be shown in Via-Azul project (www.via-azul.eu) in Southern Spain (Andalucia), where electric energy, sufficiently produced by local concentrating solar power plants will be trasnmitted to any higway fueling station, via highway seperate Smart Grid (HVDC cables). At the fuelng stations the electrical energy will be converted in high capacity electrolysers to H2, available to internal combustion engine cars and fuel cell cars.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMoving fuel arrond in trucks or pipelines was yesterday.. in the EU and the US...! ;-)
Saludos P.K.
Where is the Hydrogen to come from ?. I suppose the most likely source is Natural Gas CH4. There is no discussion of the infrastructure required to do that. I agree with Chu, the whole thing is a nonsense. john
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThat's easy logic.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhy not driving a bicycle?
You should read the whitepaper from Armor Lovins
"20 Myths about hydrogen"
and you will find your statements as one of the myths!
Batteries powered cars are heavy weights - that kills a lot off energy.
Battery carging takes a lot of time and is no good idea driving over long distances.
Batteries have a limited live-time and are expensive.
What will happen if all vehicle are batterie powered?
Batteries and the resources to produce them get much more costly!
Electric vehicles are a good idea for urban citys and short distance.
Amory Lovins is a Shill for Oil & Gas. He heavily promoted the Oilies H2 economy SCAM - another bait-and-switch Sucker Trap to blockade or deflect interest in realistic options like Electric Vehicles or Methanol. Once that SCAM got blown he jumped on the plug-in bandwagon - pretending like he invented the concept.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"Battery Cars" are not heavyweights and FOOL Cells are Battery Cars - called series hybrids. You can replace the 50% efficient $100k Fool Cell with a $2k, 43% efficient clean burning Methanol Engine. Methanol contains 40% more H2 per liter than Liquid H2 - so who needs H2.
Battery charging is easy. You just plug-in overnight. No need to drive through heavy traffic, and wait in line at the filling station for rationed fuel (the future).
Batteries are at least 10X cheaper than fuel cells, and weight about as much if you include the heavy bulky H2 tank and associated valves & piping. And fuel cells do not have the longevity of batteries.
Resources for the ICE vehicle are being rapidly depleted. EV's use commonly available lithium. Should be no resource problem for EV's.
jnugent : Try this experiment : Half fill an empty paint can with wood chippings. Fit the lid and drill a small hole in it. Put the can on a gas ring flame for five minutes until gas is emitted by the hole in the can. Turn off the gas ring and light the gas coming from the hole.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou have just made a hydrogen generator which will burn for fifteen minutes, leaving just charcoal in the can.
We have been able to do this on an industrial scale for over a century, and cars were fitted with hydrogen generators until the fifties in some countries.
The technology only needs modernising...
im glad that you agree!my company[aeci.us.com],is dooing exactly what you expressed.the real problem here is,hydrogen has the potential to make all other forms of creating energy obsolete.therefore,as we have been informed by the department of energy,our government is not going to support an effort to negate all other investments into other forms of energy presently bieng in use.they are afraid that all the other energy producers will be hurt financialy.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisif you believe everything that the government tells you then you are really misinformed.hydrogen can be made from the aluminum that is so abundant on this planet.hydrogen can also be created in very large quantity instantly,removing the need to transport it via tanker truck.my company[aeci.us.com]has now recived the patten to create instant hydrogen on demand at pressures in excess of 300,000psi. and at temperatures nearing 6,000deg.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisyour wrong on all counts and have a degre too!my company[aeci.us.com]is dooing exactly what you say wont work.quit your day job and go back to school.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this