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In Brief
- Being religious is often linked with greater well-being. New research suggests that the effect is culture-specific.
- A strong predictor of a person’s religiosity is the condition of the society in which he or she lives.
- Finding communities and social groups that align with your beliefs can improve life satisfaction.
Alain de Botton, a prominent writer and outspoken atheist, has a grand vision to nurture a truly secular society. He foresees awe-inspiring monuments dedicated to nature. Museum and hotel designs would encourage contemplative thought and self-improvement. Psychotherapists would occupy offices in accessible yet glamorous boutiques, providing easy opportunities for supportive interactions with others.
Although such a radical transformation of civic life—religion for atheists, as he calls it—is unlikely to make it beyond the blueprints, de Botton is on to something. Atheists miss out on a lot of great perks that come automatically with belonging to a faith. As a religious person, you gain a community of like-minded individuals, many of whom are eager to welcome you into their social circle. During tough times, this network softens your fall. When it comes to happiness, “there appears to be something special about having friends at church,” says sociologist Chaeyoon Lim of the University of Wisconsin.
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Add CommentTo have a true sense of yourself as a living being on a planet called Earth offers the finest feeling of belonging one is
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thislikely to achieve in a lifetime.
So what exactly is the difference between a theist and a drug-addict, if happiness in both cases follows once the person enters some form of transcendent state brought on by an idea or substance? Doesn't religion just sound like hiding in false happiness, more akin to the Matrix than true joy?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAs a secular humanist (or atheist, if you will), I dare say that I can see beyond the triteness of ordinary life - more so than a theist. I can let myself be amazed by the fact that I am alive and thinking: I very nearly did not exist. We could never have evolved, we could have been extinct like the other 98% of Earth's creatures, Earth could have been struck by a major disaster or climate change, my father could have lost his virility at a young age... and so on.
As a theist, all you can be amazed by is a book. Everything is already explained, and even if we should travel to the outer rim of the galaxy and find other civilizations - God still did it - and our ultimate journey is already known. Boring.
Having been a theist and atheist, I was much happier as a theist. Then I believed my existence had meaning and purpose, but at an atheist, I realized that in the end, my existence is utterly meaningless. That doesn't make me happy. Worse yet, while watching with my children Hawkins on Discovery Channel explain why there isn't a god, I had to look over at them a realize their existence, in the end, is just as meaningless as Hawkin's and mine. No, that doesn't inspire any sense of happiness at all. How could it?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"As a theist, all you can be amazed by is a book."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA theist could just as easily marvel in many of the things you described as part of the "creation".
I'm a nature freak. While in the dessert, I occasionally witness stunning sunsets, so beautiful they bring tears to my eyes. A theist could do the same and think of it as a blessing of god. While I wonder how millions of years of evolution could end in an organism that gets emotional over a visual experience.
Gods offer better resources and defenses against greed avarice and lust for power than atheism does. After all, gods can say "just wait until you're dead - things get better!" Somehow that has to be more generally appealing than "when you're dead, you're really all gone, forever."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSo if atheists wish to gain acceptance, step up, cure the ills of the Earth and take credit for it. You'll be the first if you succeed; however, ask yourself how many people would have to die in the name of Atheism before you decided it just wasn't worth it anymore. Gods peoples will tell you they are willing to kill as many as it takes however long it takes; dying/killing for gods is probably the most popular activity of homo sapiens; make a list if you don't think so. One column for people fighting/killed in the name of some god, versus people fighting/killing in the name of nothing. "with God on our side" is an a priori proof of the duplicitous contradictions and irrational thoughts and beliefs inherent in religion; how can a GOD possibly take a "side" against their own creations?
At least Atheists will tell you straight out, we're all screwed in this life, thank god.
"I realized that in the end, my existence is utterly meaningless…"
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOn some level, this is so true. We are a speck, nothing more.
And yet, lives do have meaning. They have the meaning that you give it. You are in full control.
The search for meaningfulness is akin to the search for happiness. Happiness is a result of sharing our experiences with others, however meaningfulness is not as simple to find or explain.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI would disagree with msadesign that our lives do not have meaning. Our brains provide the requirement and our bodies fulfil.. that is meaning surely.
Our brains provide the requirement BECAUSE our bodies require the stimulation, either chemical or biological. It's all pretty simple really, but we as humans in this wonderfully evolved socio-political environment we exist in think it MUST be more complex because it CAN'T have just evolved. We are wonderfully arrogant!!
My apologies to msadesign - I was quoting sparcboy as well
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhile it is true that in the end entropy wins and the universe essentially grinds to a halt and all information (and perhaps meaning) from the past is forever gone, it seems a bit silly to judge your life's meaning and those of your children on some outcome almost inconceivably far in the future... and who knows, by then it might be possible to jump from this universe into some newer one and skip the end. In any event, between now and then a lot of cool stuff can happen, and you and your kids can be a part of it. Mankind's journey is cumulative, and you and your family can be part of moving it forward... that is pretty awesome. Just because the life of a bit of rocket fuel is brief and almost invisible in the overall picture, it still adds some thrust to move the whole thing upwards.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSky fairies and flying spagetti monsters are not the bright future of mankind, science and reason are. Beyond what day to day meaning you can find in living a good life with your family on this wonderful planet, add just a bit to the increase of knowledge, science and reason and decrease of suffering, and your life will have plenty of meaning in the grand scope of things as well.
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... as far as this comment:
While I wonder how millions of years of evolution could end in an organism that gets emotional over a visual experience
Come on, think about it. Lots of organisms that were the result of millions of years of evolution do not get emotional over a visual experience... you happen to be one that does, try throwing a billion darts randomly at a pub wall... if one hits the bulls eye, is it guided by some sky fairy?
Not all Theists believe in a literal interpretation of a holy book. Atheism is fine, monotheism is fine, polytheism is fine. Whatever works for you. Just don't be a zealot and insist your unprovable conjecture, whether it be atheism, monotheism, or polytheism, is best.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt is unfortunate that you have come to the conclusion that a life that is meaningless in the long run leaves you unhappy. However the opposite is true for me and my family. The idea that all lives are meaningless in the long run is the great equalizer. The fact that this one life is all that there is helps me to embrace life and the natural world and to it as being wonderful and exciting. I love to get out in nature and revel in the random chaos that we have happened to be born into.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAlso, getting to see and experience nature and the world with my children is also great. In fact I couldn't be a happier person. I have a dream of a life and it is all meaningless but that doesn't prevent from be happy or having joy in this limited and meaningless existence.
I fail to see how people can be happy devoting their life to a purpose and a community that is all based on lies and fantasies. To me that is a life of misery and unhappiness and really more akin to being a drug addict seeking that next dopamine fix from an experience that is unreal.
To me religion is a life of faked orgasms, very unfulfilling and empty.
I'd like to second what tharriss says about the visual experience. Also, I'd like to claim that these do not derive from natural selection, but from social evolution. At some point we became clever enough to think beyond simply staying alive, and ever since we have progressed into appreciating more and more in life. Would a stone age man be terrified or overjoyed if he saw pictures of the universe taken by Hubble? Similarly, would someone living nearby the Niagara falls be as amazed by them as a tourist from Europe?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJust because two different things are unprovable doesn't mean they are equally likely. The most reasonable approach when given an array of options you can't yet prove one way or the other is to pick the most reasonable and likely one from the bunch.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSomehow an all knowing, all powerful sky fairy doesn't stack up as a very likely explanation to anything.
Sure. But that doesn't do anything to prove their point, does it? To suppose God is real, you must believe the source for our knowledge of his/her/its existence.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt's like assuming the Lord of the Rings is a real story but not hold the actual book as the actual source for it.
"Gods offer better resources and defenses against greed avarice and lust for power than atheism does. "
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhat an absurd proposition...a brief tour through history will show that theocracies are just as evil as any other form of tyranny, and that 'believers' are just as corruptible.
The real question is what is meant by 'believer' and 'atheist.' A bible belt evangelical would no doubt label me an 'unbeliever' since I don't subscribe to their precisely detailed (and culturally defined) version of Christian theology. But as one who reads the bible and scientific journals regularly, and believe that there is a godlike presence in human conscience, and a mystery to the universe that is much larger than any human's sclerotic and anthropomorphic view of God, I consider myself very much a believer; and that an understanding of physics, chemistry, history, and facts should be part of any complete theology.
Spiritual beliefs (or beliefs that there are no valid ones) are like money: Their value is in their application, not in the beliefs themselves. You can't eat money, nor can you build a shelter out of it, but you can trade money for food and shelter. Spiritual beliefs are the same. The god(s), rituals, and rules show a way to act toward your fellow beings. Spending time espousing a particular set of spiritual beliefs, which you deem 'correct', and defining conflicting beliefs as 'wrong' (blasphemous?) is not just irrelevant, it is prejudiced and harmful. Use your beliefs to guide your compassion. That may be their only value.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMark Twain has this great piece called "The Mysterious Stranger" in which he describes the power of this stranger and his effect on those who ask for his help. Who is this stranger? Either God or Satan. One cannot tell the difference.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMost of the atheists and agnostics I know have a similar perspective - just because you don't believe in a god doesn't mean life has no meaning. In fact, many believe that losing the idea of a god directing your life brings greater meaning to it. The kinds of things de Botton proposes make perfect sense, and as atheism (and agnosticism) grow more people are going to want this kind o thing in their life.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisRogerPink is right on the nose with this one too. We can't prove there is a god, or gods, or this particular god or that. We also can't prove there is no god. So all we have left is belief - and in a free society we have the right to believe what we will.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI'm sorry but I don't buy this nonsense. First of all what exactly does being 'happy' mean ? And how exactly do you manage to reduce yourself and your existence to utterly meaningless ?
It sounds to me like a bogus post or someone who really has no grasp on the meaning of atheism or life itself.
As someone who was a theist until I was about 24, I agree that there is some kind of self satisfied fantasy sense of 'peace' that comes from living a life in the belief that an all powerful alien being is monitoring your life every nanosecond and if you pays suitable homage to that being, it will look after you. Except of course it is a wholly fantastic mental state that produces such a sense of peace.
One might as well smoke hash for your whole life. It produces the same result.
As an atheist I feel my life is very meaningful indeed. How I live my life impacts on my friends, family and community. Every day I have an impact on society. When I am gone I will be remembered by my family and friends and that is a wonderful thing. What is it with theists that they need to feel they are going to live yet another life after this one ? How incredibly greedy of them!
Knowing how magical and wonderful life is; how amazing and incredible nature is and how amazing the fact that life sprung up on this planet and produced me and the rest of humanity and nature, is a most wonderful thing to know. Not needing to create a fantasy world to comfort me and being able to face up to the true nature of life is also a huge buzz and something that does indeed make me very very happy.
Having been a theist and atheist, I was much happier as a theist. Then I believed my existence had meaning and purpose, but at an atheist, I realized that in the end, my existence is utterly meaningless. That doesn't make me happy. Worse yet, while watching with my children Hawkins on Discovery Channel explain why there isn't a god, I had to look over at them a realize their existence, in the end, is just as meaningless as Hawkin's and mine. No, that doesn't inspire any sense of happiness at all. How could it?
"When it comes to happiness, “there appears to be something special about having friends at church,” says sociologist Chaeyoon Lim of the University of Wisconsin.
What utter nonsense. I have friends in my community that are a huge comfort when times are tough. I don't need a church to create false friends who only care about me because they believe I share their same fantasy world.
As far as this comment:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this---
RogerPink is right on the nose with this one too. We can't prove there is a god, or gods, or this particular god or that. We also can't prove there is no god. So all we have left is belief - and in a free society we have the right to believe what we will.
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Once again I say it is a false equivilancy. Just because you may not currently be able to prove there is or is not a god, doesn't mean that choosing to belive or not believe in one are equally valid choices.
You also cannot currently prove that there isn't an oreo cookie monster living in the heart of the moon, but I'd guess you'd write that belief off as pretty silly, given half a moment's thought. Given we can't currently prove there is a god, simply look at what seems most reasonable and likely.... an all knowing, all powerful being probably won't be anywhere near the top of the likely alternatives... but instead would rank with the likelyhood of there being a cosmic smurf who farts dna across spacetime, thereby seeding life amongst the worlds he/she earlier created in a giant oven in the galatic kitchen hidden in his/her ear.
Simply saying we can't prove it does or does not exist doesn't mean that all ideas that fall into that realm are equal and deserve equal respect or consideration.
HowardB:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYour statements sound like someone who is an an anti-theist, not an atheist.
People need to ask themselves 1 important question: Would you rather be informed or religious? With modern technology, we have proven some of the "miracles" in the "Holy Bible" are nothing more than missunderstood events that the people of the time the book was written did not understand. And as knowledge increases, the validity of religion decreases in equal parts. Why is not the advancement of our species enough for all of you that are continuing to use religion as a mental crutch, when you have 2 perfectly good intellectual feet to stand on? Religion is simply ignorance by choice. I choose not to bury my head in the sand. Kinda like all those little kids with their fingers in their ears, humming so they don't have to hear what their parents are saying because they don't like it or just don't want to listen. The child choosing not to listen doesn't mean what the parent is saying is not valid or true.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"Doesn't religion just sound like hiding in false happiness, more akin to the Matrix than true joy?"
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAs Cypher said in the Matrix... "Ignorance is bliss".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133093/quotes?qt=qt0324295
In the Matrix, Cypher is a character who chose to remain in an artificially created world which provided some semblance of happiness, unreal as it was. He failed to recognize that he was depending on a placebo, or a drug. Strange as it may sound, staying happy takes a lot of work and is a choice, despite external influences.
Leaving the idea of a god is as inevitable as a bird being pushed out of its nest for the first time. It is leaving everything it knew behind but soon discovers a whole new world. The hardest part for us is leaving that method of thinking which has gotten us by for thousands of years. It's truly a leap.
In the end, life has no meaning. There is no other conclusion. Just because the ability to reason and subjectively assign meaning to experience evolved, does not mean that life has meaning. I/We can subjectively apply meaning to our experiences (life, if that is what you call experience), but it's purely subjective.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFor me, the fact that in the end life is utterly meaningless is the most difficult thing to deal with. Why? Why do I feel a need for existence to have meaning?
We cannot possibly know that. The only thing we do know for certain is that we have evolved rather 'randomly' (not really, but you catch my drift), without a God-creator. We do not yet know what lies beyond the known universe, or why it exists. For all we know, we could be microbial lab rats.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisEh, here's the thing. I'm not convinced at all by any of the major religions I look around and see. They all seem like human wish-fulfillment to me. I can't get any value out of pretending to believe in what I don't, so what relevance really is there to the question of what the benefits of 'theism' are? I am not going to get those benefits, period. I can't swallow that kool-aid.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOf course it is great to study what makes people happy. I'd be thrilled to put that knowledge to use, but it has to be actually useful knowledge to me. Go for it Boton, et al. Studying how religion works sounds like a decent line of research.
I really do believe that it is time to move on and away from religious belief systems that are thousands of years old and based on knowledge that was very limited compared to what we have today.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisGenesis 1:28 laid down the groundwork for the destruction of the biosphere that we are witnessing today.
There comes a time when a particular belief system has outlived its usefulness and becomes downright dangerous because the attitudes and beliefs that it generates are so out of step with the modern realities and problems that are currently confronting humanity and indeed, every living thing on the planet.
Life is meaningless without God? If I make a medical discovery that cures several cancers, that is meaningless if there isn't a God? Enjoying life is meaningless unless there is also pie in the sky bye and bye? Life is meaningful only because of a belief that something good might happen when I'm dead? Life is precious not because it is eternal but because it is transitory and evanescent!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLife is meaningless without God? If I make a medical discovery that cures several cancers, that is meaningless if there isn't a God? Enjoying life is meaningless unless there is also pie in the sky bye and bye? Life is meaningful only because of a belief that something good might happen when I'm dead? Life is precious not because it is eternal but because it is transitory and evanescent!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLife is meaningless without God? If I make a medical discovery that cures several cancers, that is meaningless if there isn't a God? Enjoying life is meaningless unless there is also pie in the sky bye and bye? Life is meaningful only because of a belief that something good might happen when I'm dead? Life is precious not because it is eternal but because it is transitory and evanescent!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLife is meaningless without God? If I make a medical discovery that cures several cancers, that is meaningless if there isn't a God? Enjoying life is meaningless unless there is also pie in the sky bye and bye? Life is meaningful only because of a belief that something good might happen when I'm dead? Life is precious not because it is eternal but because it is transitory and evanescent!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLife is meaningless without God? If I make a medical discovery that cures several cancers, that is meaningless if there isn't a God? Enjoying life is meaningless unless there is also pie in the sky bye and bye? Life is meaningful only because of a belief that something good might happen when I'm dead? Life is precious not because it is eternal but because it is transitory and evanescent!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI'm an atheist, I'm happy, my life has meaning and purpose (ask my kids). Do I need the comfort of the idea of a continuum in the form of an afterlife or an overseer like god, no. I live my life by a Sanskrit poem my mother used to read to me.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"Look To this Day"
Look to this day:
For it is life, the very life of life.
In its brief course
Lie all the verities and realities of your existence.
The bliss of growth,
The glory of action,
The splendor of achievement
Are but experiences of time.
For yesterday is but a dream
And tomorrow is only a vision;
And today well-lived, makes
Yesterday a dream of happiness
And every tomorrow a vision of hope.
Look well therefore to this day;
Such is the salutation to the ever-new dawn!
Did you consider the idea that being alive and having
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisthe most advanced brain of all livings things so far?
Did you consider that no human is born believing in
organized religion?
Until you know yourself, religion is a crutch to support
you until then.
This term "Sky fairies " is the equivalent of 'homosexual lifestyle'. It demonstrates a refusal to engage in the bare minimum of civility.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAtheism is a prejudice, just like homophobia. It's sole purpose is to give those who believe it a reason to feel superior to other people. That is the purpose of every prejudice - homophobia, racism, misogyny, etc.
Humans are obsessed with hierarchies and ranking, our languages are filled with words to establish what is higher or lower in value, status, etc. And our relationship structures demonstrate this as well.
Prejudice is a mechanism by which people attempt to elevate their perceived social standing by reducing that of other people. This is true of atheism, and the evidence of it lies in the derogatory and degrading remarks that dominate atheist exposition.
Atheism expresses no condemnation of rape, murder, bigotry, or greed. It contains no statement regarding caring for people in need, no affirmation of generosity or compassion, not affirmation of empathy.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt does, however, reject many bodies of knowledge that do affirm generosity and compassion and empathy, and condemn rape, murder, bigotry and greed.
Everyone keeps ignoring the qualifier "in the end". Your/My life may have meaning we subjectively apply to it now, but IN THE END, it is meaningless.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe universe will eventually burn out or collapse on itself and everything in it will end. What will having cured cancer mean then? (I don't want an answer, it's a question for you to ponder.)
To WilmRoget, in both comment 35 and 36. You want to talk prejudice? how about the word "atheist." It's a term coined by believers to cast all others as being "them". It is inherently divisive.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDo Mercedes owners call all other car drivers aMercedists?
The term "sky fairy" is a term of art... and I mean that literally. Art forces the observer to view the familiar from a new angle. The presumed reverence which believers insist we also hold toward their "God" is precisely the self-satisfied privilege that comments like "sky fairy" or "zombie Jesus" are designed to pry you out of.
Get used to it. Other people do not, and do not HAVE TO, hold your ideas in reverence. I like to engage civilly, but I have also been in discussions where satire, mockery and art have proven the better tool.
"Atheism expresses no condemnation of ..." because it is not what you wish to make it. You wish "atheism" could be classed with "Catholicism" or "Baptist." Atheism is not an organization. Atheism is the position of acting in the belief that the world functions quite well without having to hypothesize a "god" to explain things.
This goes for morals, too... so you WILL find a lot of atheists condemning rape, misogyny, murder, fraud, theft, etc... all of these moral concepts are in the atheists pervue and vocabulary because, unlike "God" we can see these things exist in the world. Most atheists, just like most believers, actively seek a just morality that makes this world a better place for ourselves and subsequent generations.
Atheism rejects NO "bodies of knowledge." It rejects ALL bodies of unsupported, superstitious assertions.
Thank you, Roger Pink. Extremism and dogmatism--the attitudes of religious, anti-religious, political, philosophical or sociological fanatics--are the enemies of the world's people, not religion or the avoidance of it. My Unitarian Universalist church has no creed, no dogmas, only a few principles for ethical living in the world, embracing it with realism and joy. We UUs teach our kids to maintain skepticism, expand our knowledge, believe what's probable, respect others' beliefs and study them open-mindedly to see if some of their ideas can bring more peace and justice to individuals or the world but challenge those that threaten peace and justice and plain old horse sense. I am a rationalist who chose UU 56 years ago and am grateful I found it. That is, I'm grateful to my OWN wise choice, not to some book, however poetically beautiful, or some unlikely "super"-natural being.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHumans. Being willfully ignorant of conflicting or contradicting information that could challenge their beliefs/politics in the interest of the self preservation of their own happiness through surrounding themselves with as many like minded people as often as possible. That sounds about right.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt is not that let us be happyer because we believe, we have Faith, what it tranquilizes in them and it makes with let us reach our objectives
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am not religious, but I am not atheist. I sympathize with one religion, and occasionally participate in some of its celebrations. But I simply live life fully without concerns about sin, salvation, and heaven/hell. For me, it is comforting the idea of God, a creating force and sustainer, and religion as identity and social interaction. But it is hard for me to engage into believing all those stories, dogmas, practices and rituals they prescribe. And in some way, I feel sometimes I don't belong to either side...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIs anyone else bothered by the way Harold Koenig's unsubstantiated assumption is treated as fact in this article? (“Religion is not going to affect happiness supernaturally. It has to happen through psychological, sociological and biological mechanisms.”)
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhat has happiness to do with anything? It's transitory, it depends on context, it depends on a certain point of view.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMuch better to be honest.
Religion or Science - both stand high on the search-for-truth list. When both are linked, I assert, one has the best of all philosophies as a purpose for meaningful life. Since we are born totally ignorant, a lifetime of diligent search for the meaning of the beingness we have inherited is surely a "happy hunting ground." Can anyone wish for more?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOf course believers are happier.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"Credo consolans"
It's too bad I'm not more ignorant.
Although there is more that could be said about this article, the title and subtitle need addressing. The use of "atheists" to describe the counter to "believers" and "religious" is limiting and isolating. Religious and nonreligious would seemingly do the title more justice. Was it really counterproductive or misrepresentative of the topic, or was it just not thought out that well to use anything else?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOne must not forget the bad rap atheists get in the U.S., and that using the term to describe everyone else that isn't religious continues to isolate and reenforce the stigma attached to it. I generally describe myself as an agnostic. I could easily just go with calling myself an atheist, but since I take a more scientific approach, until a higher being's existence can be proven, I can't in good conscience do so. I also know quite a lot of people that are not religious in any way, but certainly do not call themselves atheists. Because of my strong Christian upbringing in the South, I was in this category for a while, but didn't want to associate myself with the term atheist. I wasn't very well aware of what what to consider myself in this middle ground. From my experiences and increasing knowledge of the world around me, I am pretty well convinced there is not a being like the one described in most religions. But, until we can prove there isn't such, or until what we humans think is supernatural involvement can be proven by physics/psychology/etc., I'll refrain myself an atheist. Just like it's not a good idea to call yourself a democrat or republican if you truly are not. There's a lot of gray area in the human existence between black and white. I guess I expect more from a science magazine--that or I wrongly have carried over expectations from all the science journals I read.
Theists get satisfaction from believing in God. Atheists(not a prejudicial term as far as I am concerned)get satisfaction from not believing in God. What is the problem? Theists will attempt to persuade atheists that they are right. Atheists will attempt to persuade theists that they are right. That is OK too. What IS the problem is when either side use ad hominem arguments, or attack the humanity of the other, or coerce the other, or call the other prejudicial names.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDo you think our universe and everything in it is the result of "...throwing a billion darts randomly at a pub wall...?" Or, do you think it was one dart that happened to hit the bullseye? Personally, I think it was one dart. Imagine those odds.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNonsense. Try learning about a subject before commenting on it.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisGood ideas.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNow, just add to your comment the one atheistic society created since history has been written: the Soviet Union. Religion was banned. A Cathedral was rededicated as the Temple of Atheism. To be a member of the elite required ascribing to Atheism. Of course, Atheism morphed into its own religion, with a Jesus (Marx), a Moses (Lenin), and an Abraham (Stalin). Turned out this idea was not so ideal. As humans we need food, water, air, and faith. The Marxists had faith - in dialectical materialism. The Atheists who subscribe to SA have faith - in Science.
Does it matter to them that their faith is not subscribed to by all? Not at all, they know they are right and that science will answer all questions. But I suspect they do not even know the questions that are important to almost all humans. I was a scientist, I learned at Caltech and UC Berkeley. As a polymath would be scientist, I studied a very broad spectrum of scientific endeavor. And now, 50 years later, I have learned that almost all I learned of science is now demonstrably wrong. Really,
only mathematics has not been disproven. So, do I have faith in science? Not really. I have faith in human endeavor to learn more about the world and universe we inhabit, with the humility that comes from realizing that just as I have a finite existence, I have a finite ability to understand the infinite.
I am happiest when I don't have to worry about a big white dude in the sky and am with other atheist.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSince faith is believing with (or despite) the absence of evidence, it appears your professed disbelief in science rests on having incorrect, or perhaps imprecise, evidence. That does no harm to science itself. Once founded on evidence science is no longer a matter of faith or belief - just fact.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTheism, because it has no evidence, is entirely a matter of faith or belief.
@promytius - gods also offer a way to fleece the lambs of the flock and make self proclaimed 'persons of god' and such 'exalted' institutions as the catholic church (note the use of lower case all through) extremely wealthy and through that wealth insulated from criticism and legal action.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am afraid that there is a third option not yet considered and it tight relates to a 'cutting edge' walk through in between both extremes. Consider if that to be religious would be just a valid alternative to divulge scientific state-of-the-art knowledge in order to easy technological understanding in terms of allegories, metaphors and the like? And how it would lookalike? Try to explain Physics Action x Reaction Third Law as a natural outcome of someone's behavior? Would it be something likewise to every good action an evil one should confront it, whereas the intense friction between both should arise as the real outcome of it? I think the article over simplify the theme.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCan we dispense with the word "atheist", which means without theism? The implication is someone "is" an atheist, when the reality is someone else "is" a theist. Theism, according to Wikipedia, "is the belief that at least one deity exists." Saying "atheist" is akin to saying acapitalist, or asocialist. The list of things people are not is virtually limitless so it is standard practice to describe people by what they are, and not describe others by what they are not. I suspect the word got started because "theists" seem to be uncomfortable having to explicitly identify themselves as believers in supernatural ideas. Theists have the same mental set as believers in sorcery, Santa Claus, witchcraft, and voodoo-ers. It is easier to identify the others and not have to label oneself.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisEverybody is a non-believer about most of the gods that mankind has invented. Think about a worldwide survey which asks respondents to categorize, real or not-real, each god (or supernatural belief) from a list of the many thousands that have been identified in the last 10,000 years. Obviously, each and every god or belief would score many more "not-real" than "real" votes. Theists, of any persuasion, are non-believers on 99.9% of the items, but only the non-theists get it right every time.
Ha! You're not human! More Markov text generator games by undergrads!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisScientific American, this is another topic that you should be embarassed about discussing. You have absolutely no way of distinguishing those who are non-believers from those who believers. Moreover, you have no way of distinguishing those who are religious from those who are non-religious.If you want to give people a chance to vent online, you've succeded. As a piece of social science this is abysmal. Shame, shame shame! But what the hell, for you it has all turned into entertainment. I feel sorry for you SA.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am that I am and I am an agnostic.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI just wish I was getting a lot more sex.
I would have thought that this is actually a study to see how many people say briefly: "Ignorance is bliss."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI'll pray(know)that someday you will know the JOY...That you will feel the LOVE of the Higher Power...To be with like minded people, who will accept you as you are, and show it. and none of it will be kept from you. You are THE creation...and the Creator will take Its Creation unto Itself...Or not.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSo therefore...?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishuh?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAmen.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf atheist kills somebody, he will be ok. If Christian passed by homeless and didn’t help him, he wouldn’t be ok. If macaque male fights and kills another one macaque, this male will be happy. What is the difference between monkey’s happiness and human=believer’ happiness? Atheists are happy in their monkeys’ being.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPart (1) - You don't need to be religious to have a like minded supportive community. However, to date and in to the foreseeable future they have cornered the market.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMy question are most religious church folks really like minded, or just mind controlled? I don't mean that question with any derogatory intention as I respect everyone else's opinions and many are well intentioned yet maybe not so aware, again just my personal opinion. Most I know don't always think for themselves and buy into obvious dogma. And it has been my experience most "followers" miss the heart of the "story" of Jesus and get caught-up in a lot of crazy misinterpretations. My mom and everyone always talks about Jesus saying "an eye for an eye" and she claims to have been reading the Bible her whole life. Then I have to explain to her Jesus didn't say that and in fact that it's is rarely used in it's proper context. Now we have Christians saying "oh well we don't use The Old Testament". And "not everything in the Bible is right", I'm like no kidding.
It should be noted some of it is humane and timeless and are sensible messages that those who have a balanced and still mind understand without even reading a book that come through one's own life experiences. Religion has played a positive role in some periods of history when we were barbarians and needed a rule book and a study class on how to be half way decent and civilized. Having said that it has always been seriously flawed and that is just my personal opinion which I believe in this country I am afforded.
How about faith healers and mega tele-evangelists, seriously? You know Jesus talked about sheep and sometimes it seems as though the modern herd opening their wallets are being led to a cruel inhumane "life" and brutal slaughter and not to grazing on green grass. Anyone wish to comment on the Roman Catholic Church history and where it is still today on topics like birth control and abortion rights and maybe pedophilia or how about the Holy Inquisition...?
I unlike my Christian friends agree with Jesus and I practice non-judgement. However, my "friends" are telling me about all the people who are going to burn in hell for eternity. If I'm going to pray to a particular God this gal would be generous and is only into a little punishment, and hopefully she is hot and understands what I'm praying for :)
I do believe in the power of intention and the science of the mind and our interconnection to our quantum Universe, as to me it is simple and indisputable. SEE PART (2)
PART (2) Regarding the "story" of Jesus in the book "The Sermon on the Mount - The Key to Success in Life" by Emmet Fox who was a scientist, philosopher and a pragmatic non pollyanna spiritual teacher born in 1886-1951 sounds more like what Jesus may have meant. There is a famous quote from the Founder (Ōsensei ) of Aikido, Morihei Ueshiba who said "when you call out the name of God it echoes inside YOU" and "when you bow deeply to the Universe, it bows back. "Keep the Faith" 23
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHappiness depend fully on your attitude and not you are believers or atheists.How you look water of half glass positive or negative way that decide you are happy or unhappy
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhich of these two persons do you believe would be happier?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOne "believes" that by chance, he came from nothing, and at death will return to nothing. In between these two oblivions, he must make the "best" of a meaningless existence.
The other believes he was "created" by a God for a purpose which he will someday fully realize, and in spite of life's nastiness is anticipating a bright hereafter.
If person number one can truly be described as "happy" by those who know him well, then, if there was a Nobel Prize for happiness he would be a sure winner. But what do you think?
By the way, I like how SA continues to do the "bait and switch" trick with their article titles. The headline asks "who is happier", but the sub-title asks "who is better off". So what "really" is the question SA. Then again, is SA not giving away the answer by including "really" in the title?
msadesign had it right: if you don't want you life to be meaningless, it's up to you to give it meaning by how you live it - and there are so many ways to do that.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWittgenstein said that the meaning of a word is its use in the language. I would say that the meaning of a life is its living (how it's lived) in the world.
'Everyone keeps ignoring the qualifier "in the end". Your/My life may have meaning we subjectively apply to it now, but IN THE END, it is meaningless.'
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYour view certainly fits into the tradition of existential despair, but you don't use the word "meaning" in this context the same as some other commentators, including me - though I think I understand what you're trying to get at. To some, an act (or life) can have meaning at or during some time - and that's plenty good enough. If it's not enough for you, OK. Personally, I don't find the idea of "meaning IN THE END" to be very useful in the end.
Being. Birth, a life (time of experiences, knowing differentiation, discovery of choices and consequences), death which is the end of the individual and the return to being one with ALL. All life like the ocean, birth becoming an individual drop of water, being differentiated from the ALL, your life is the journey of that droplet. Death is the ending of your time as a droplet. When I die I like to think that even though the "I" that I am, the I choosing to write this, will end, the life (energy, spirit, water in this metaphor) goes back into the never ending infinite "body" of water, life energies, spirit forces, of the entire known and unknown Universe, or Universes. How many times will a droplet form from this ocean? Will every (life) time that "I" become aware, discover or rediscover that I have differentiated, connect me to being 3 dimensional, in time (4th dimension), a living breathing being in or of the space time continuum? Any readers who've continued to read this far... GOD (note that I'm not using lower case nor only one upper case to try and take this concept on to the level of ALL), the ALL knowing "God", all knowns and unknowns; the omnipotent, ALL power, energy, life, spirit; the omnipresent, everything everywhere, again, the ALL of the Universe. For me, this "exercise" is like thinking about Gaia but at the level of the entire universe. As I know that most will dismiss this (if they haven't already) as some sort of ramblings from a drunken follower of the sky fairies, I do so wish I could connect this back to the science and philosophies already expressed here. Hawkings is so right, the Universe doesn't need a God, the sum total of the Universe IS "God". Made me of dust? Star dust? Fits the current science theories. Nothing is ever lost or gained, matter to energy, energy to matter, endless cycles... all that I have is the here and now, yep, I'm in the space time continuum. When "I" die? OK, so I will HAVE to give up my ego, and if I learn to give up or surrender my ego while I am still alive will I get to experience, be able to contemplate that I am part of the ALL? Statistical outlier on the theist atheist, yes no dichotomy. Ignorance is bliss? Wish I could explain how ignorant I feel when trying to "understand" the Big Bang, or a singularity, or the nature of light, or why knowing that even though "I" will end, I will get that "reward", get to become one with the ONEness of all life, everywhere, as it has been and always will be. OK, so I get to go out there to metaphysical if I want to.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOh well, the last post before mine was 19 days ago, not like lots of people are trying to post. "Happiness" has been part of this blog. Buddha teaches a lot about illusions and happiness has all the qualities of being something not worth grasping for and grasping certainly damages happiness. Beliefs in gods, God, or the Goddess, each seems to fit their time and place. Old Testament, a God that could nuke two cities, every man woman and child, and then turn Lot's wife into a pillar of salt just for looking back, in shock, in grief, in mourning? Let alone drown the entire world and every living thing not on the boat? And through the teachings of Jesus He becomes a gentler father, we get metaphors of sheep herders guarding their flocks, and a message of love. And how do gods and goddesses die? When we stop believing in them. But what to replace them with? When alone in a thunderstorm we got Thor or Tlaloc. When all was lost in a catastrophic flood, we got Noah. Today we've got science for the lightning and thunder. After the tsunamis, survivors guilt and PTSD's. Among these commentators on this blog, searching for meaning in lives with or without a "Supreme Being", confronting our individuation, seeking social connections. I found that trying to contemplate an infinite God without beginning or end was very very similar to trying to understand a Universe without beginning or end. And if God is everything everywhere then God the Universe was an easy match. Also took care of the wrathful vengeful bearded guy and the guy in the clouds with angels all around him and the lack of female figures. This was SO much more than made in our image. Also took care of the does He really know and love ME... all knowing, all caring, all loving, over and over, ALL. Searching for meaning, searching for serenity, searching for peace, if I have to be wandering around this whole lifetime, might as well wander toward the center, toward the ONEness, the connectedness. Ecology is the study of the interconnectedness of it all. Ecology of the soul, the spirit, the mind-body thing we are born into, only to return and recycle, endlessly. Dust to dust? Even stars die, become dust, from which we came, and given 5 billion years, to which we return. Quite meaningful to me.
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