Irvine's final resting place?
Holzel came across what he refers to as a "red slash"—a long diagonal slot—alongside a route where Irvine's body was said to have been spotted. Although the slash is estimated to be about one meter wide by six meters long (too long to be a 1.8-meter body) and is more likely a sharp-walled gully or crevasse, further scrutiny revealed an image within the slash that is roughly the size of a person. "The 1.8-meter blob appeared to me [in early January] just as I was about to write the committee to say that we seemed to have struck out," Holzel says.
The researchers confirmed the presence of this slash (and the object within it) with the help of a second north face image, this one a highly detailed black-and-white print of a portion of the yellow band, scanned by SwissPhoto using a five-micron laser. The location and orientation of the image in the black-and-white scan are also consistent with the testimony of the Chinese climber in 1960.
Searching the yellow band
Of course, much of the yellow band has already been canvassed by other searchers with little to show for their efforts. Snow cover is the big wild card when analyzing images of the north face, says Eric Simonson, the professional mountain guide who led the 1999 expedition that uncovered Mallory's body. Although the 1984 images are good, they cannot account for changes to the region made by yearly or even seasonal snowfall, he adds.
If Irvine is going to be found, it will likely be within the yellow band, Simonson acknowledges. "But it's a big area," he says. "Two of our guys spent a day in 2004 searching the yellow band, but there was too much snow to see. To be successful you have to be in the right place and be there when the conditions are pretty good."
If there is heavy snowfall in the area where Holzel wants to search, his team will likely require a metal detector, although this method has not proved highly effective because searchers themselves use metal axes and crampons that interfere with a detector's readings. As a result, Simonson says, "You have to be pretty close to an item to find it."
Simonson gives Holzel credit for finding creative ways to search for Irvine. "What Tom sees might very well be a body," Simonson says, adding, "but it might not be Irvine's body." An estimated 120 corpses still remain on Everest.
Unfinished business
Even Holzel admits that, "while the photographic evidence is evocative, it is not by itself fully convincing in terms of the exact spot Irvine lies." He is hoping to put together a small search team of two Americans and two Sherpas to investigate his finding, a sojourn he expects will cost at least $125,000 and hopes to mount in the coming months or next year. "The only way to prove it is to actually go there," he adds. Holzel has even written out an extensive list of procedures regarding how to properly handle the camera and develop the film if they are found intact.
Although finding Irvine without his camera (or finding a camera that is too badly damaged to produce pictures) would shed little light on whether he and Mallory succeeded, "we have good reason to think that [Irvine] had a camera," Simonson says. "That's why we went back in 2001, to find the camera." (Howard Somervell, who was part of the 1924 expedition, has been quoted as saying that he had loaned his Kodak VPK camera to Mallory as they passed each other on the north ridge.)
"It will be a momentous day if that camera is found," Simonson concludes, a day that could change history.
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51 Comments
Add CommentIs it worth risking more lives on the slim chance that the camera may be found, multiplied by the slimmer chance that the camera has an unambiguous image from the peak? What if another climber is killed in this attempt?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYes.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf another climber is killed, their blood will have been spilled in the name of science. Is there any nobler cause?
This is not science, it's history. History itself is a noble endeavour, but only if we learn from it lessons that help us going forward. I suspect the lesson here is that climbing Everest is dangerous but it will not stop anyone from trying to climb the mountain. So it's probably not that important to get the body and camera down.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAh, yes, science. Let's develop an hypothesis that meaningless research involving frightening personal risk is a necessary result of human personal egotism, and then we will have an experiment ideal for the conditions on Mt. Everest.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@reguspatoff, much of what you take for granted was discovered by those that took great personal risk to do so. Before you label it as the result of egotism, perhaps you should consider what a world full of cowards or people that valued nothing enough to risk their lives for would be like. It's very arrogant to believe that your personal values should be shared by everyone.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhat if it doesn't frighten the climber? What if the climber is going to climb anyway, as dozens every year do? Would you rather they not go for the camera?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhy look for the camera? Because it's there.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSeriously, human beings are curious and thousands (yes, thousands) risk their lives every year trying to summit Everest.
Of the 2700 who have summitted, several hundreds have done so without the help oxygen. It is likely that Himalayans have reached the summit before.
This is a race to find out who was the first white male to reach the top.
Science will not forgive sin. I will not die for it.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYes, the question is whether knowing if Hillary and Norgay were the first to reach the summit is "science", and whether the value of that knowledge is worth risking human life to find out. I maintain that this arcane historical point is not worth the risk.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt's not "science" - it's history. And no one is forcing anyone to climb. People do it for adventure, excitement, curiosity. Just because you wouldn't risk it doesn't mean others shouldn't. I wouldn't do it either but I have no right to tell others not to.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisyes finding the answer is worth the risk
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisClimbing Everest has very little to do with science, it's basically an ego trip,who cares who was first?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAs Sandy's great niece and biographer I am fascinated by the continued interest in his fate. I hope, however, that the mountain holds her secret and does not reveal either Sandy or the camera. The mystery of what happened to Mallory & Irvine is one of most romantic and tantalising of all mountaineering stories. My only consolation is that although somebody, one day, might be able to prove they did stand on the summit, no one will ever be able to prove definitively that they did not.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSummit or not--isn't part of the trip to get back?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHillary got back. Lived long and prospered, he did. According to the article, 120 have failed to come back. It is irrelevant at which point they failed. They still failed.
You got to get all the way up *and* all the way back. Or else you DIDN'T do it.
People risk their lives for a variety of reasons. Race car drivers, sailors, pilots, climbers,etc. All are a little eccentric in their own way and all are probably very interesting, high energy people. The common thread is desire. We should rejoice that someone has found a subject so captivating that they will risk live and limb in pursuit. Try it you might like it!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisreguspatoff, no one is asking YOU to go. As a mountaineer of nearly 20 years, I can tell you that people like me would very much prefer not having people like you making decisions about "frightening personal risk" and "human personal egotism" for us. It is my life. Please allow me the human dignity of choosing for myself if a given search for knowledge -- scientific or not -- is worthwhile. Even if that means I may not survive the search. Frankly, I think it's pretty egotistical of other people to think they know better than I -- or someone like Holzel -- whether a given danger is worth facing. The scope of human knowledge would be a whole lot smaller if those who "know better" could make decisions for those willing to take risks -- sometimes grave risks -- to see what lies in the uncharted territories of the world and of the human spirit. I dont insist that you think and behave like me. Please dont insist that I think and behave like you. For people like me, there is something sublime in that exploration. And yes, it is very much worth it. "Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world. Push off, and sitting well in order smite The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths Of all the western stars, until I die." --Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAll this debate over what these scientists/explorers/historians should do is unnecessary. Let them make their own decisions about what risks they are willing to take and why they might wish to take them. Why are so many people so driven to control the lives and decisions of others?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSo if it turns out to be true that Sir Edmond Hillary was not the first to climb Mt. Everest will Mrs. Clinton suddenly discover her first name is actually Mallory or Irvine? I think I like the sound of Irvine Clinton.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI don't honestly believe that the camera will be found, or if it is, that it will contain proof positive that Mallory/Irvine reached the summit. That said, I think that if there are people who want to go up there & look for Irvine's body, that's their choice. People have climbed Everest for less worthwhile reasons than that, and I think most people who know something of Everest's history would like to at least see the mystery of Irvine's final moments solved.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIn any case, I'm doubtful that either Irvine or Mallory made it to the summit. The clothing they wore, the cumbersome oxygen equipment and inadequate oxygen supply they carried at the time, suggest to me that their success was impossible from the outset. Many very fit, experienced climbers using state of the art equipment, and wearing the most up to date clothing & gear fail to summit every climbing season, and fit, healthy climbers still die on Everest without ever reaching the summit.
By all means, locate Irvine's remains, if possible, but don't risk your life looking for photographic evidence that probably doesn't even exist.
I hope that they forget everything about this, otherwise we're going to have another circus just like the one surronding the discovery of Mallory. That incident has proved beyond all doubt that these people are not after History in the noble, moral way, but in fact seek to profit from one of the great climbing mysteries. At what point does it become acceptabe to mutilate an already identified body to gain DNA identification, or to dig him up 2 times after giving him a mountain berial, incase they missed some loot the first time. What happened to Mallory is everything that is wrong with climbing today, and the same people are involved here, and I have little doubt will trample all over the memory (not to mention body) of one of the true brittish greats, for the sake of tourism.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI believe this issue was substantially put to rest in the year that Mallory's body was found. Conrad Anker, a very experienced climber tried to climb the second step without using the ladder that had been placed there by the Chinese. He was unable to successfully climb it. If Anker couldn't solo climb it with all of today's advanced climbing aids, it is very unlikely that Mallory or Irvine could in 1924. It is a very technical climb, and Irvine didn't have the experience to do it. Odell was wrong when he said he spotted Mallory above the second step.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"one of the true brittish greats", British is usually capitalised and has one t and don't tell me how to spell capitalised.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIn the name of adventure or whatever , people will "succeed" in converting the pristine Himalayas into a junkyard of plastic and what not.Oh ,this human arrogance to conquer everything !
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCapitalized. Okay?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThese people are seeing what they want to see, just like the Mars face, which was an anomaly of post-processing.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe Chinese have a record of a man claiming he climb it in the 17th century, and another claim that another did it bare-foot.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI need to be able to get anyone who is likely to go searching for the film(s), to go to Mallory's discussion page on Wiki, it's very important, as I have technical information there about how to protect the film, and get it processed. Can anyone suggest a site or best way to do this? - I don't like this typing box SA, I can't see what I'm doing or what I've just spelt.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA fools errand that will please none but fools. No the climb is not Science, the sleuthing, and the use of high tech tools to discover information that was hidden? That might qualify. It might be a project of interest. Was the search for the Titanic Science? The many trips to the Moon? This is a popularization of Science designed for the audience SciAm caters to, predominately white male professionals in their 40s who see Science as a power tool, and want to understand it better. Few of them are actually Scientists, who are far too busy reading their own publications, and doing research, to bother. For that audience this is an article of interest. For the rest of us? Who cares!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt's History of Science, philosophically speaking Science in reverse. They were there for Scientific reasons. I'm only interested in this because it was something that I read about when I was a child, and I think I can help them recover the photographic images, if they recover the cameras.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf the Emperor of China had done it 1000 years ago, it still couldn't be proved, this is about proof, not a race thing, or we're better than you. Anyway, there are differences other than this, like they knew it was the top of the World, and not by 'chance', just part of a small empire (in global area terms).
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf actual statistics are anything to go by, this team may well only find there own deaths. Is it really that important to know that Mallory and Irving may have given their lives just to have achieved a 'virgin' first in vain?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTo all Historians of Science, Forensic Scientists, Engineers, Photographers, and Physicists - PLEASE VISIT MALLORY'S DISCUSSION AT WIKI
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDarwin's son may have a camera up their.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI really don’t like this typing box, you Scientists should no better, gray text (50% Lux) on black, the only reason it’s black text on white, is because of the printing press, it’s all going LED, having it like this is UNGREEN.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAnyway, sorry, back to Eco-Steve, death on Everest, for most, I imagine isn’t that bad, most get their heads smashed in, and so don’t know what’s happened, others, a comfortable internal CNS released happy stuff death – lot worse ways to go.
Besides, Irvine may be found with a very large smile on his face.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThey may have succeded in getting to the summit but it's not a succesful climb unless you return alive.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAnd, why do we think that a "Chinese climbers" names are insignificant? Who was he?
My fellow New Zealander, Ed climbed up Everest because he liked to climb mountains.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHe couldn't understand all the media fuss about the expedition's success.
He thought about refusing the Knighthood , but it was suggested to him that if he accepted it, he would be more successful in fund raising for helping Nepal. Especially in America where the inhabitants are apparently more snobbish than the English .
When he was questioned by some mass media moron about Mallory and Irvine being first to reach the summit he said that maybe they did but he was the first(along with Tensing) to climb it and get back alive.
He had a very low opinion of the present day climbers , who famously refused to try to save a climber up at a high altitude.
Those on the way up preferred to continue rather than help a fellow climber.
When he climbed Everest there was no ladder and he climbed up a difficult part now called the "Hillary Step".
He was very aware that the climb to the top , by him and Tensing was due to the effort of all members of the Expedition.
Another of his achievements was to be the only living New Zealander to be featured on a Bank Note.
He was also voted the most trusted person in the country, and you can't do any better than that.
I personally have found cameras lost or left behind on alpine crags. Twice now, and each time the film had disintegrated and the body of the camera (and lens) were filled with sand). The cameras did not even make good paper weights. Any rational cost benefit analysis could have but one result. This is prohibitively expensive and that is before consideration of the risk to human life. Who cares who got there first. There are enough corpses on that mountain.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisClimbers will climb, so they might as well climb and do something worthwhile at the same time.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI think everyone is missing the point: this is an interface between science, history and the human sprit. The techniques used to narrow the search are pure science (and thrilling in their own right), but the more visceral urge to test it despite the personal risk is the truly exciting element. That is what made Marie Curie, Dr Barry Marshall or Neil Armstrong such evocative figures in history and science. Bravo.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBesides, the cameras you found are of this era? Film stock made by idiots from Eastman in 1970s?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe film in question is made from high grade gelatine, from horses ears, it keeps like human skin will, which will up there, you should be more positive, unless you know what you're talking about. Expert comments only here please, from now on.
The most valuable camera ever to take photographs on this planet, of this planet, bar maybe one or two, maybe there.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis is one of the most interesting comments posted so far, I have the current estimate at about 5%.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis publication should be renamed SciAm with 'ateur' in brackets following it.
Please, people report this as abuse, so I might get Editorial attention here. Attention to this, is what is needed here,
ATTENTION FROM ALL SCIENTISTS IN THE WORLD.
If you find it, they will come.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisExcuse the paraphrase of an equally trite phrase.
And film.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBesides, they've been 'here' for years - at arms distance, at least; they wouldn't be so stupid, to do otherwise - 'visiting' various characters; the odd Irishman, the odd Scott (and they even 'took' Turing, because he was about to spill-the-beans).
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJoking aside, I know this has all the hallmarks of a spoocky Dan Brown book, and a possible future conspiracy theory. But all this is really about is maybe, suppressed military sensitivities (that may have been kept too secret, and just forgotten) and some pictures.
Being serious now, if there is a secret mission camera up there, and it's got recoverable material on it, it will probably because of a much more venerated son of New Zealand, that it has (scientifically speaking, which is what this publication is supposed to be about) .
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAnyone who goes searching for the answer to some question usually discovers something else also. That is one of the ways in which the stock of human knowledge grows.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@Stockholm LOL. It's likely that Himalayans reached the summit before? It is impossible that anyone reached the summit before either Mallory/Irvine or Hillary/Tenzing.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWithout modern UV protection (sunglasses or sunvisor) they would have been snow blind before getting near the top. Without modern insulation they would have gone delirious and died of hypothermia before getting close. Without modern footwear their feet would have been frostbitten before getting close. Their hands would have also been frostbitten. Their is NO WAY they could have negotiated any of a number of the treacherous, more technical sections of the climb without modern equipment such as crampons and ice axe. Absolutely NO WAY.
I hate to break this to you SA, but the site you reference as a source for the number of bodies on Everest is HORRIBLY outdated and inaccurate. The page, http://www.mnteverest.net/history.html, is incredibly inaccurate, and appears to have not been updated since approximately 2001. I'm ashamed of you SA, you should be doing better research.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBravo!! You gotta get there and back to have succeeded. Hilary and Norgay were always a class act.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this