EMPOWERING: A plug-in hybrid electric vehicle retrofitted by AC Propulsion can send power from its battery back to the grid.
Image: ISTOCKPHOTO/TOMML
SAN DIEGO -- The white Toyota Scion xB parked in a corner of the vast convention center here doesn't look too unusual, until you notice the fat cable plugged into its bright orange front grille.
But its owners say it might be the smallest unit of California's electrical grid. The car, a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, has been retrofitted by AC Propulsion to respond to signals from the California Independent System Operator -- giving it the ability to send power from its battery back to the grid.
It's on display here at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science as proponents of so-called "vehicle to grid," or V2G, technology make their case.
Backers say V2G could help balance the country's supply and demand for power, especially as renewable energy from intermittent sources like wind and solar becomes a larger part of America's energy mix. With enough cars participating, a V2G system could help buffer ups and downs in power production by allowing utilities cheap storage for their excess power.
"One car doesn't make much difference," said Willett Kempton, director of the Center for Carbon-free Power Integration at the University of Delaware. "But when you have 100 cars or 1,000 cars, you actually start to talk about displacing power plants."
Kempton, who will give a talk today at the AAAS meeting, originated the V2G concept in 1997. He's also spearheading a project that's put three V2G cars on the University of Delaware campus, where they provide power to PJM Interconnection, which operates the electric grid for much of the Mid-Atlantic and Great Lakes regions.
The demonstration project -- known as the Mid-Atlantic Grid Interactive Car Consortium, or MAGICC -- is now "making money in the grid, actually collecting cash" for sending power back to PJM, said Kenneth Huber, the grid operator's senior technology and education principal. "Whenever these cars are plugged in at the University of Delaware, they're making cash."
Well-connected cars make money
Here's how it works. The cars on the University of Delaware campus are connected to PJM by an Internet connection. Every four seconds, PJM makes contact with the vehicles, allowing them to signal the cars to send power back into the grid in times of need.
"PJM is required to have 1 percent of its peak power on any particular day to be provided in frequency regulation at 60 megahertz," said PJM's Huber. "At the same time, people are turning on load and off load, so we have to move our generation up and down to match the load."
He compared it to a pond where water comes in and out, but the overall water level must remain constant.
The advantage of using V2G to help smooth out peaks and valleys in power supply, and demand is clear, Huber said. V2G-equipped cars like the retrofitted Toyota or those on the University of Delaware campus can respond almost immediately to signals from PJM or other grid operators -- a much faster response than can be achieved by rejiggering production at power plants.
For consumers, the lure is the ability to generate money as their cars sit unused, experts said.
See what we're tweeting about
15 Comments
Add CommentFirst, $.60/kWh for off peak power sounds extremely high...California has some of the highest rates in the country, and they are $.09-.11/kWh for off-peak. $.60 is closer to a critical peak pricing rate!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSecondly, while V2G is a grid-operator's dream, the article correctly points out that the continuous charge/discharge for frequency regulation causes unknown wear and tear on the battery. And with the BATTERY becoming many middle-class households second-largest physical asset behind the home, it is not likely that many people will trade reduced lifetime for $100-400/year.
However, frequency regulation is not the only electricity market PHEV's can play in. EV's (and other end-uses like water heating) can easily provide "regulation down," or the absorption of excess energy on the system. This essentially involves the PHEV utilizing that same signaling infrastructure from PJM to govern when to charge the battery with no discharge involved.
This "Smart Charge," or V1G, removes much of the wear and tear issue, while providing an essential grid service and even lower cost power (possibly even free charging). This is especially important for grids with a large percentage of wind or other variable generation. In California, Texas, and the Pacific Northwest, wholesale electrical prices have actually gone negative at night under high wind generation conditions.
Thus, we can reap most of the benefits from PHEVs from Smart Charging--including low-cost or free charging-- without the costs associated with wear and tear on the battery.
Wouldn't the vehicle discharge function require that idle cars be plugged into the grid for power recovery? It would seem like this would require the extension of power lines and plugs to all parking spots where idle vehicles would be located when peak demand was required. Unless I'm misunderstanding something fundamental this would also require a large capital investment in power lines...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLike most of these ideas, this one is covered quite well here:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://www.withouthotair.com/
It's nice to see that someone has got a practical demonstration going.
@jtdwyer: I feed up to 2kWe back into the grid from my photo-voltaic installation with no modification to my grid connection or the network.
As a warning, if you cherry pick charts in this book without taking the time to understand the whole thesis, you will come to some pretty silly conclusions. That's where most of the criticisms, that I've seen, come from.
It seems I’m going to have to assume that the lack of a negative response to my question about cabling requirements is an averted positive acknowledgement.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisForlornehope – The best of luck to you: I empathize with the objectives of David JC MacKay’s website. However, as the article points out, one car doesn’t make much difference (except perhaps to you, individually). I presume that unlike most, you do not drive your car to a worksite daily, or that if you do the parking spot you normally use during the day is equipped with a power cable or connection. Otherwise no power stored during off-peak hours in your vehicle is available to the grid for system-wide peak period capacity management.
My experience with large projects sold on the basis of small demonstrations is that large infrastructure requirements necessary to achieve objectives are often overlooked. In order for this plan to make a system wide impact for any power grid, there must be sufficient access to the grid during peak hours for parking locations. That cannot be achieved by individuals carrying extension cords to their multi-story parking garage downtown. Any practical implementation of this plan would require installation of an extremely large number of power lines and parking spot plugs before any system-wide benefit could be gained.
I’m extremely concerned if a ‘practical’ demo, casually associated by this article with the American Association for the Advancement of Science, especially one that this article indicates has generated ‘a lot of excitement’, does not provide an accounting of its necessary infrastructure capital requirements. The article states that the demo project is now making money by sending power back to the grid, but I’ll bet there’s no amortization of any initial grid access costs included in that accounting.
Those at “Scientific American” responsible for publishing this article should be ashamed of their role for perpetuating misinformation. I’d lambast the author of this report for skewing its presentation and omitting critical information, but I see that something called ‘Climatewire’ shares attribution for the article. I presume they have vested interests and have accomplished their objectives in the publication of this article.
If there was a valid argument here why don't power generating facilities simply install battery banks? Does the answer lie in the Ist and 2nd Laws of Thermodynamics? The total cost of the batteries: from the energy of mining of lead (nickel and other minerals), converting of fossil fuel (oil to plastic) and other materials, to the pollution and waste caused by the entire exercise flies in the face of BTU efficiencies, costing more in energy than the process produces.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMelvinShapiro hits the nail on the head. This is true in nearly all alternative energy and decentralized energy efforts. While they provide feel good benefits for we who are genuinely concerned, the real total costs are rarely factored in and when they are factored in, they simply don't pencil out in terms of money and consumption of resources.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCase in point: I have a friend who always buys a Prius car. He feels very "Green" when he does this. His heart is in the right place. BUT, he & his family are not the greatest drivers. He has (so far) gone through 3 Priuses to my 1 mid-sized SUV. When we consider all the resources that when into those three cars of his to my one, I'm more green than he is and without even trying very hard.
We need to begin looking at these issues through a very broad lens. Now it may be true that the US is moving, albeit unconsciously, to a single centralized electric grid fed by multiple decentralized sources using myriad resources including: fossil fuels, solar, wind, hydro, and even kinetic and others but the totals costs and impacts of these components must be carefully considered if we're to really gain any ground in efficiency and harmony with Mother Nature.
And we need to keep trying our best IMHO.
@Dr. Doodle...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisReuse: I would bet that your friend did not have his three Priuses demolished at the car wrecker, but sold them to have a newer version. IF this is the case, and if the Priuses last just as long in the hands of a second hand owner, AND if they last as long as your SUV, then he is not a greater strain on resources. Since cars depreciate the most in the first years because of the 'new premium', he is simply subsidizing the second-hand owners who get a good car without the primium. Also, he may be consciously trying to support the technology by voting with his wallet.
I am just guessing. You may be right. He may be a Greenie that doesn't get it and hasn't implemented the first 'R': Reduce.
My point was that the "heavy" grid infrastructure can and does carry power in both directions at the levels needed. Of course you are correct, there will be a need for local wiring in car parks. Nobody is expecting electric cars to take over the world quickly but putting this infrastructure in place over the next 40 years is hardly a big challenge. In these discussions people often forget that infrastructure needs to be almost completely rebuilt on these timescales anyway. It wears out!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe one lesson to be learned from this is that it's going to be a long, difficult road to de-program people from the effects of the global warming hoax. And, of course, those who are using it to simply amass power and wealth (Al Gore), or to assert their moral superiority (rank and file greens), will fight the truth every inch of the way.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHi Squish, Just to clarify, my friend in the example I posted as is his personal pattern: does not maintain his processions (including cars) very well so they break/ware out quickly, is a very high mileage driver, and uses the vehicle for much heavier work than it was designed to do. So of the 3 cars, one was totaled in an accident, the second was so banged up & in disrepair, it was sold as salvage, and the third equally banged up was traded in on a Subaru. The Subaru looks many years old and its nearly new.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI kind of wish your reasonable guess were right but I don't think so.
One of the greenest things we CAN do is take care of the things we have so they don't need to be replaced so often.
Another of course is to not have children unless we are totally committed to loving them and raising them accordingly. Think about this one. The typical couple have kids and then those kids have kids, and so on. Before long each couple has literally spawned and army of consumers!
These are things we all can do. Simple, and over time things will get better.
Be well and happy my friend.
Moving cars with piezoelectrics can convert mechanical energy to electricity ,and these can also be stored and fed back to grid ,so there is an additional energy source. Think of all those moving cars on roads ,and with transducers imagine the potential for electricity generation which can drive not only the very cars but also the grid-there are many theoretical possibilities ,but as some one has pointed out what are the logistics ,and where is the will for the infrastructure ,and at what cost and convenience.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTechnological advances and associative imagination can generate so many ideas ,and putting them into practice requires more ingenuity and resourcefulness compared to the problems they seek to solve.
suresh10in – If only technological advances would come along when you need them the most. Unfortunately they most often occur in areas where you least expected them, making it impossible to rely on them to bail out engineering projects. Engineers must account for all potential obstructions to their plans: creative circumventions must be found for those they didn’t envision.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSuccessfully implementing even a really excellent engineering plan sometimes takes more ingenuity and resourcefulness than is available. I think there’s a series of programs on TV called ‘Engineering Disasters…’
The Renewable Energy Ideologues have latched onto the V2G concept as a phony way to pretend they have solved the severe Energy Storage problem that is unavoidable with so-called Renewable Energy. The following analysis blows apart the V2G Scam, as entirely impractical:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://depletedcranium.com/why-vehicle-to-grid-is-a-horrible-idea/
In particular, check out the comments of Engineering Edgar:
"....This is a no-win situation for them hands down. The fact that they may get some "free" energy storage is moot. For one thing, they don’t like to use energy storage if they can avoid it. For another, it's going to make management harder and it will "dirty" their power, which can mean reduced lifespan and increased chances of failure of their equipment. Nobody really wants to buy the crappy power from a bunch of little generators.
The other problem is load distribution. Residential areas and light commercial are not the big draw on power. The biggest are industrial customers. However, city centers do also require some pretty heavy power usage. Now the problem is that if a significant portion of your generating capacity is out in residential neighborhoods in the suburbs, but most of your demand is in the cities and at aluminum mills and chemical factories and so on, how in the hell does it get there? The system was not built with the capacity to back feed that much power from traditionally low-demand sprawling areas to demand centers. Modifying it to do so would be super expensive. We're talking about multiplying the capacity at all the suburban substations and running a lot of new lines to accommodate the fact that power is now going every which way.
I am 100% certain this in no way shape or form benefits the utility. The only question is who is the bigger loses: The consumer or the utility. Well, it doesn't matter really, because when the utility takes a bath on things like this, the rate payer gets hit hard too..."
Super Vehicle to Grid (Super V2G) Cars as Powerful Power Plants!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA Vehicle to Grid (V2G) Toyota Scion hybrid was demonstrated at the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting February 19th. It was equipped with a 2 way plug and could sell 15 kW of electricity, to power aggregator PJM for the local utility, at the rate of $30 per hour. PJM stated the car could earn up to $1,800 per year for its owner.
Second generation V2G automobiles, with better batteries, might be able to provide as much as 25 kW using a two way plug. It has been estimated that owners of such vehicles might earn as much as $3,000 per year.
We are developing what could become Third generation V2G vehicles. Steven Letendre, a V2G analyst at Green Mountain College, has termed our work Super V2G. Future cars and trucks will be able to provide up to 150 kW with a wireless connection to suitably equipped parking spaces. Payments to owners may very well be sufficient to pay for the vehicle.
These breakthroughs may make possible the elimination of the need for batteries of every variety. As a harbinger of the future, an early MagGen™ is expected to first demonstrate the ability to replace the need to plug-in a plug-in hybrid. Two kilowatts is all the power that can be taken from a typical wall socket. A pair of one kilowatt MagGens might demonstrate a compact, inexpensive, capability to end the need to plug-in. This will relieve the concern that plug-in electric and hybrid vehicles would depend on power generated using fossil or nuclear fuel.
A SPICE™ (Self Powered Internal Combustion Engine), in hybrid cars and trucks can run when parked, spinning a generator. Fueled by small quantities of demineralized water, an ECHO™ (Energy from Collapsing Hydrogen Orbits) fueled SPICE is one of two Super V2G systems presently on the horizon.
MagGen powered cars are expected to be capable of initially generating at least 75 kW and later 100 kW. In the case of luxury cars, trucks and buses 150 kW will prove practical. MagGen is potentially a second Chava Super V2G system.
A substantial number of vehicles powered by MagGen, or its water sipping counterpart, an ECHO fueled SPICE, in a parking area or garage - will transform the array of parked vehicles into a multi-megawatt power plant. The average vehicle is parked 95% of the time.
These breakthroughs will be greeted with understandable skepticism by anyone with science training. However, to learn more go to: http://www.aesopinstitute.org
The article says 60 megahertz. The US power grid is at 60 Hz. Shouldn't this be 60 Hz?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this