MINDBLINDNESS: Failing to spontaneously assess another person's perspective is a persistent problem for even high functioning adults with Asperger's.
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People with Asperger's syndrome, a variety of autism spectrum disorder, characteristically have trouble perceiving the mental states of others, making social interactions difficult. But many adults with the disorder lead highly functional lives, leaving researchers to wonder how their brains differ from those of neurologically normal adults and children.
A report published online yesterday in Science shows that many adults with Asperger's who cannot spontaneously anticipate another person’s state of mind, can still correctly guess it when given a simple verbal prompt to.
To test the ability of adults with Asperger's to read another person’s state of mind, the study authors used a test often given to children called the Sally-Anne False Belief Test. In the experiment, subjects watch as an actor places an object in a box and then leaves the room. While the first actor is gone, another actor moves the object to a different location in the room. When the first actor returns to the room, the researchers track the eye movements of the subjects, which indicate where they think the first actor will look for the object. Research has shown that normally developing children as young as two years old correctly expect the first actor to look in the box in which he or she placed the object—not in the spot to which the second actor moved it—thereby imagining the world from someone else’s point of view.
Video recorded during the experiment with adults that have Asperger's showed that they “looked randomly” from box to box rather than at the box in which the actor should have checked, explains lead study author Atsushi Senju of the Center for Brain and Cognitive Development at Birkbeck College in the U.K. “They didn’t anticipate a preference,” he says. But when explicitly asked to verbally predict where the actor would look for the object, they answered correctly.
The results show that the difficulties even high-functioning autistic adults face are more nuanced and complex than some researchers had believed. But they also suggest ways to help those with Asperger's, Senju says. The findings could pave the way for the development of training to assist people with the disorder to make more conscious assessments of others’ thinking, thereby improving their capacity for social interactions.
The findings also hold a valuable lesson for those who work with both kids and adults with the syndrome, Senju explains. "We can find a way to adjust ourselves to their capacity.”
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38 Comments
Add CommentAll this testing and discovery is great. But, what to do about the underlying, fundamental "problem"? Meds, no thanks. Maybe some broader acceptance by society of "people are different"? Dare I dream...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"the eye movements of the subjects, which indicate where they think the first actor will look for the object."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHow do we know what that means? I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm sincerely curious here. How do we really know what the eye movements are telling us?
I think the 'people are different' acceptance comes with yourself first. I have Asperger's. I function and compensate for it. I accept that some people may find me strange at times. I don't care what they think. They do not need to change and 'accept me'. Matbe this is a side effect of not perceiving their mental states as much as other people. I truly don't care. It actually work out fine.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis article made me understand why Aspies/Autists "fail" the Sally-Ann test. Giving the correct answer (where would the first actor look first) seemed easy.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNow I read the test looks for eye movement instead of asking it makes sense.
I am Diagnosed PDD-NOS. Two different scenarios seem likely if I would be tested.
(1) I think I have to memorize the whole act and I am busy -faces are hard- gathering visual facts instead of thinking about the thoughts of the actors. My eyes could go anywhere.
(2) While the second actor moves the object I draw a conclusion (conflict, teasing or correcting the messy placement). When the first actor returns I have the urge to inform him/her of the new location by verbally explaining, pointing and staring toward it. If it is on a video screen I might suppress the pointing and speaking but I am still likely to look at the new place.
Being not normal I've often wondered how "normal" people could possiably function in their semiconscience condition. they seem to operate on autopilot most of the time.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thislevel, upon level, upon level . . .
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisthanks for sharing....
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this___________________
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<a href="http://www.directstartv.com/jump.html?referID=oa-0-173189">Entertainment at one stop</a>
Being "strange" is maybe the price to pay for being also smart and creative. :-)
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisthe police use eye movement to tell if a person is making things up or remembering. if the eyes look to the right, the person is remembering, it they look to the left, they are making things up.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"The findings could pave the way for the development of training to assist people with the disorder to make more conscious assessments of others thinking, thereby improving their capacity for social interactions."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhich completely misses the point, which is exactly this need to process social information *consciously*, rather than being able to hand it off to a 'social co-processor' as NTs are able to do [NT - neuro(logically) typical - autistic shorthand for those with standard 'wiring']
This is where so many 'helpful' ideas break down - they fail to recognise the speed penalty and heavy workload involved in consciously processing social information, non-verbal signals, etc..
So for instance we can (sort of) learn to recognise facial expressions. And it 'works' - in the classroom or lab, where that's the only task - But in a face-to-face, real-time situation, where you have to hear what the person's saying, prepare your response *and* alter it in accordance with the 'signals' they're sending, you quickly fall behind.
It's this difference between quick, 'automatic', largely unconscious social & signal processing, and slower, higher 'cost' concious processing which many well-meaning people fail to recognise, much less address.
They just assume that you need to be taught, and to practice, and then it will (somehow) become largely automatic - as it is for NTs. But this ignores the neurological differences which prevented this from happening in the first place.
As a physician in my late 50's, I have a real problem with witnessing trendy diagnoses come and go in many waves over the year. When I was a child, homosexuality was a disease, and now it is a lifestyle. Other dimensions of "different-ness" have taken their turns in being the medical diseases that many of us have, before they choose to let us be just people. This includes hysteria, depression, ADHD, bipolar and now Aspergers. The cost to these people in being labeled "sick" by society is enormous. Why can't psychologists just give this up and find an honest way to make a living?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisdiagnosed unteachable 55years ago I was lucky to be left to learn at my own pace and avoid the brain washing that was inflicted on my peers. Being able to see the world without the preconceived blinders inflicted on normals is wonderfully helpful in seeing reality.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMy friends use signals for me in our hobby group, for similar situations over and over to which I can give a memorized response. The problem is this is memorized and not always approriate and I am either waiting for their prompt or trying to analyze the situation. This leads to me being 'out of sync' so I am in agreement with the comments here as a whole. Yes we can be taught social basics the problem seems to be speed and others intrepretation of our responses. As long as we are unconcerned and not affected by their response, then where is the problem.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA bit in contrast to the other responses it seems, but I am happy science does not leave us alone. I think we need adjustments to be made for us and I don't think scientific interest is needed to help drive that.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI do have a little concern, however. Do the researchers have a Theory of (pdd/asperger) mind? I mean, do they assume all the tricks to determine the feelings of NT persons work the same way with aspies? Are they willing to see aspies sufficiently as intelligent persons, so that aspies have a chance to invalidate tricks? Something I try with my 2 posts.
Meanwhile I found a video demonstrating the Sally-Ann test.
http://www.5min.com/Video/Sally-Anne-Test---Autism-84120723
I instinctively paused to video to give me time to study the 5 pictures - this prevented me hearing the explanation.
My first eye movement after reaching the 5th pictures was upward (!). I had to compare faces a few times before being sure the girl in the middle had light hair and was therefore the girl who put something in the basket first.
The quality of the 5 test pictures is quite bad (the subtitles are unreadable) which might influence the result. Still a complete other test result.
After unpausing, I realise the verbal explanation given would have made the recognition easy. (Unfortunately the NT audience is tested by verbal question.). I see no reason to *look* at the basket. My question once more, do researchers validate the use of measuring tricks, when testing aspies?
Sorry typo
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisi DO think scientific interested is needed.
It would seem that they have shown that the test procedure is invalid... not that they have "discovered" some subtle nuance. But we need not fear the "researchers" will admit their error. After all, defining every human variation as a "disorder in need of therapy" is how a lot of people con a paycheck out of society.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDreams disconnected from reality are useless. A person who is outside mainstream human development to the point where he or she cannot function normally is disabled. That person is better served by being taught how to function in normal society than some stupid idea about "dreaming of an accepting world" that has no practical benefit other than you being able to pat yourself on the back for being morally superior.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFYI. I am the father an Asperger's child, and one of my goals is to train him to function normally in society, not demand society change to accommodate him.
That may be true, but for some, people's perceptions and lack of acceptance may prevent them from obtaining and keeping jobs. I am concerned for my 19 year old son who has Asperger's. If there were greater acceptance, he would have a better chance to be profitably employed and involved with other people. I applaud your success, but think that greater acceptance would be a great help to many others.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI applaud your success, but for some, greater acceptance of differences would allow them to become more able to obtain and keep jobs. I dream of greater acceptance for my son who is 19.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNo, if he were better trained to interact with the mainstream of humanity, he'd be better able to be profitably employed. A job is not a charity.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am getting tired of the majority being demanded to conform to the minority. Teach your 19-year old how to function among people with normal development, or work with him to find a career path where his disability is not a fatal liability.
The tone of 'training' here worries me. Yes, people must be able to interact and thrive within the confines of 'normal' society. This can occur through conformity or through adaptation. One denies the self and the other expands it.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe correct career path, the correct life in general, is key though. I think it would benefit all sides if people embraced this viewpoint more without looking down upon people found in different niches. A certain utilitarian appreciation for something that isn't a liability but a specialization.
Thanks for that, I wish I had the ability to not care. I'm getting there though. Why this need for acceptance? I'd rather be the one 'not accepted' than the one 'not accepting'...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWell said.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhat's the problem with adjustments? We ALL need adjustments in one way or another--length of our pants, strength of eyeglasses, position of car seat. And no, there is no difference-we do what is necessary to get us to that next point.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAs they say, Amen.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThanks for that, I wish I had the ability to not care. I'm getting there though. Why this need for acceptance? I'd rather be the one 'not accepted' than the one 'not accepting'...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this--
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSorry, my posts were suppose to be responses to other posts, not general comments...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@frgough - It's not a matter of being trained. People with Aspergers really have a different way of interacting with the world. It's ofttimes not a negative thing ... the so called "normal development" that you speak to has given the world mediocrity and bigotry similar to your comments. The acceptance of differences would unlock some of the talent that are being shut out.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI can speak from position of authority since I have a diagnosis of Aspergers, but was able to be a mid-level manager (and VP) at a major wall street financial firm for 30 years. I had the ability to hire and fire people such as yourself and was able to lead my groups effectively. I did have to tell them that I had a few "quirks" and let them know how to best interact with me. Overall, my staff gave me good results and a lot of loyalty.
So maybe some "training" might help, but a change in people's attitudes to accept those with differences would too. The world would be much too bland if everyone conformed to the herd mentality.
I do have ausbergers syndrome and ya klnow what i came preprogramnmed with alot of things including some traits that disable almost all forms of what your saying. When threatened i go on autopilot lose control that cannot be retrained while i can have minute controle it is just that minute and if i move i lose that control and that as i said before CANNOT be "trained" outta me. Personally i find the concept of training someone like a dog quite horrendous anhd to say you do better than others is quite inane and stupid of you. Now people tried normal punishments loss of ewlectronics so ona dn so forth but the NEVER worked in fact they backfired causing worse behaviour and more violent outbursts so while your chil may be more like an animal for his high trainability then congratulations you've got the lucky conforming aspie award. In my life conforming has brought nothing but pain and hardship. So good luck to your child i hope he can do things on his own after being "trained" But you can never truly beat genetics and most of my genetics at least say learn aquire data and use it they also say screw the world.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI do have ausbergers syndrome and ya klnow what i came preprogramnmed with alot of things including some traits that disable almost all forms of what your saying. When threatened i go on autopilot lose control that cannot be retrained while i can have minute controle it is just that minute and if i move i lose that control and that as i said before CANNOT be "trained" outta me. Personally i find the concept of training someone like a dog quite horrendous anhd to say you do better than others is quite inane and stupid of you. Now people tried normal punishments loss of ewlectronics so ona dn so forth but the NEVER worked in fact they backfired causing worse behaviour and more violent outbursts so while your chil may be more like an animal for his high trainability then congratulations you've got the lucky conforming aspie award. In my life conforming has brought nothing but pain and hardship. So good luck to your child i hope he can do things on his own after being "trained" But you can never truly beat genetics and most of my genetics at least say learn aquire data and use it they also say screw the world.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI concur sry for double posting. Why care about others most humans i've met are biggots anyways. somoen has to EARN my respect i don't care who they are.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt feels better to function among people with normal development. People will not trust you if you are too different.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPerhaps I did not understand the article properly, but *I* thought that "training" referred to training others (NT's if you please) how to maximize their interaction with those who have Aspergers. Did I misunderstand? If the training refers to how to interact with those who have AS, then I think it would be quite helpful for all. I know someone who seems to have AS and responds to me quite well, whereas she doesn't respond to others. I think the problem is they haven't taken the time to find out what her abilities are and how to maximize interaction with her.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI see now that I *did* misread it, but I do think that training others how to communicate most effectively with someone with AS would be helpful. jmo.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI believe TAJ has identified the root problem here. Conscious/unconscious thought processing profoundly influences the complex social interactions that are so hard for our aspies- the time-delay required for volitionally wading through various options is socially disabling.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisKnowing what they "should" do doesn't mean that is what they will choose to do, either. As a parent of three aspies, I've learned that the fact that they "know" something doesn't mean they will apply it in everyday applications. It has been found that such individuals can often identify the "appropriate behavior" in a test question or therapy group, yet fail to generalize it in their real life. My own personal hypothesis is that their mind-blindness (belief in their own perspective as the "right" one)leads them to choose to act on that perspective, whether they know another option or not.
Yes, aspies can learn new patterns of behavior in order to function with other people. Adaptation is a two-way street, though- while aspies must learn to communicate appropriately (i.e. without being overly disruptive to the people around them), NT's need to allow for some flexibility of thinking- do we really all HAVE to approach a problem the same way? Can WE learn to accommodate people who view the world differently than we do?
The comment about the police using eye movement to detect deception ... well that's just pseudo-science and there are no verifiable studies to justify the validity ... same as other "lie detector" methodologies. They are totally unreliable.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe facial movement "experts" are self-serving and basically are giving fraudulent information.
This is a wonderful opinion. The things mentioned are great and
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisneeds to be appreciated by everyone.
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