Despite the complete dismantling of Wakefield’s vaccines-cause-autism hypothesis, public skepticism about vaccination has only increased as new speculative theories have been put forward. Maybe, some contend, vaccine preservatives cause long-term problems. Or maybe the growing number of vaccines all assaulting the immature immune system at once causes complications. Or perhaps trouble can arise from a toxic combination of vaccines with air pollution, chemical and metal contamination of the environment, and the increasing stress of modern life.
That this cycle—debunked links followed by ever grander speculation—keeps repeating itself is a clear indication that the scientific community is more reactive than proactive when engaging the public about vaccine safety. Investigating narrow, specific theories about vaccines does not seem to provide adequate reassurance to parents with broad and vague worries about vaccines.
So where does this leave the conversation between health professionals and parents? A good place for talks to begin would be in a prenatal class devoted to vaccines or through Web chats with physicians and vaccine researchers. Web interactions, in particular, might encourage prospective parents to openly air their concerns and raise sensitive questions they may not feel comfortable asking in a face-to-face visit with their child’s own pediatrician. Education campaigns should also be carried out. But many moms and dads will still need a forum where they can find accurate information, voice their worries, and engage in a full discussion about the benefits and risk of vaccines. And many will still want their infant’s doctor to look them in the eyes and say, “This is one of the best things you can do for your child’s health.”
The key facts parents need to know, though, are that vaccines prevent potentially fatal diseases, that vaccines have a high degree of safety, and that their safety is constantly evaluated and reevaluated in a system operating independently from the pharmaceutical companies that make vaccines. Unless this message gets spread widely and well, too many doctors and parents are going to find themselves in emergency rooms and isolation wards, watching children suffer with the devastating effects of measles, whooping cough or some other readily preventable infectious disease.
This article was originally published with the title Straight Talk about Vaccination.
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125 Comments
Add CommentThank you Scientific American for yet another block headed article about vaccines. This is the one subject the SA continually reports in an unbalanced manner. Vaccines are one of the greatest tools man has ever invented to combat suffering on this planet but the current US vaccine schedule includes unnecessary vaccines (exactly how will a 6 month old baby contract hep B?) at too early an age of immune system development. Instead of addressing these more subtle issues, SA continues the block head parade of "follow the complete schedule or put your child and everybody else at risk!" When will American MD's come to there senses and realize the inherent value of encountering a real world pathogen and mounting a fever? Why is Denmark's schedule so different? Do you mount good fevers when you get sick? I 'm thankful that I recently came in contact with live chicken pox in my late 30's (I had it as a child so I was not sick this time) as I will be less likely to get shingles later in life because my immune system was exposed again. This topic merits a more refined approach but the American medical and scientific community currently is unable to address ANY criticism of the US vaccine schedule. I 'm not a babe in the woods on the topic. I know of one person who won't publish on the topic for fear of "closed doors." Houston......we DO have a problem. But will anybody listen?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt is impossible to convince people who "know what they know". Anti-science is rampant in our society--people are either misinformed or uninformed. They get to vote on whether or not gravity exists. (I taught chemistry, physics, and math at the high school and college level for 35 years)
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI too am disappointed in your treatment of this topic. Upon receiving this month's issue, I turned directly to this article and read it immediately. Like econnell, I am not a babe in the woods, and share similar concerns. I would expect much more detailed analysis from Scientific American. Let's talk about how pertussis has mutated, for example, or how the b strain (responsible for most of the recent outbreaks, btw) isn't even included in the vaccine. CITE those studies you're referring to. Explain why other countries with advanced medicine have drastically different vaccination schedules. Tell me why it's important that my newborn needs HepB vaccination when no one we know has it (good luck with that one!). Honestly take a look at the chicken pox vaccine and the dramatic resurgence of shingles in 20-30 year-olds because their immune systems no longer receive the necessary natural boosters of coming in contact with the wild virus. Tell me what the actual odds of my child having a serious complication as a result of catching wild chicken pox, compared to the far superior immunity she'd receive as a result. Discuss serotype replacement in prevnar, and the actual difference in meningitis rates as a result.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAgain, this article was such a disappointment. My daughter is selective/delayed vaxed, not because I'm worried about autism, but because I believe medicine should be applied to individuals AS individuals. That can be hard to determine, and medicine is not a topic on which I will blindly defer to the status quo, particularly when it's so easy to open the door to doubt (e.g., newborns and HepB risk). If the CDC (and these authors) are so concerned about the effects of reduced vaccination, they're going to have to come at us with real science, and not the standard "Wakefield was a quack" line. As you said yourselves, only 25% of selective/delayed/non-vaxers believe in the autism link. Please don't assume we're all similarly misinformed.
"Our investigations looked at hundreds of thousands of children in Colorado and compared the risk of various vaccine-preventable diseases in children whose parents had refused or delayed vaccines, compared with children whose parents had had them vaccinated."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAre these NOT self-selected groups of individuals? Wouldn't a mother from the non vaccinating group be more likely to feed there offspring pop tarts and pepsi for breakfast since they neglected to get their offspring vaccinations? If this is the case, than a TRULY randomly selected non vaccinated individual would be less at risk than these numbers suggest. Have these "studies" addressed these factors? Kinda hard to address these factors when you have no CONTROL GROUP!
If you are a parent deciding on whether to vaccinate your child just ask your doctor to tell you what causes autism. When your doctor tells you he doesn't know, you have to decide if you can believe him when he says that vaccinations do not cause it. The reality is that until medical science can tell us what causes autism, they can't definitively say what doesn't cause it. There are plenty of parents (including me) that have seen it happen with their own child. Do not discount this evidence even though it has not been proven in a clinical study. My advice is to use the vaccination schedule from 30 years ago when autism rates were no where near what they are today. We are giving too many needless vaccinations. Why are we giving a chicken pox vaccination? It is much better to get chicken pox as a child and be done with it. Believe me, suffering through one week of chicken pox with your child is better than 4 years and counting of dealing with autism.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"Are these NOT self-selected groups of individuals? "Wouldn't a mother from the non vaccinating group be more likely to feed there offspring pop tarts and pepsi for breakfast since they neglected to get their offspring vaccinations?"
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this- I'm confused on what kind of trial you want. Vaccinated vs non/delayed vaccinated seems pretty straightforward to me.
- Why would you assume feeding habits would be different/drastically different? You can't control for that type of stuff in every study.
"If the CDC (and these authors) are so concerned about the effects of reduced vaccination, they're going to have to come at us with real science, and not the standard "Wakefield was a quack" line."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this- I'm pretty sure they have on this one. It's even in the article. Over 12 studies directly contradict Wakefield's conclusions. Multiple authors withdrew their names from the study. And there have been reports that these children had DOCUMENTED autistic behaviors before any vaccinations.
Why is Germany's and England's schedule so similar?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWell some of the above comments most certainly help show that anti-vaccination propaganda is strong in the US. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I guess these days we are a generation that has forgotten what it was like to live with smallpox, we do not pay attention to what has happened to haemophilus influenza type b and meningitis in infants. Well keep going anti-vaccine and we will have a generation that will figure out the importance of vaccines the hard way, those whooping couch cases are just a start.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAre there too many vaccines? That is because there are so many viruses. Someone asked why get the chicken pox vaccine? My answer because it is really painful when an entire stip of skin on your back erupts in small blisters. That little virus known as varicella zoster aka chicken pox virus can be dormant in your nerve roots for decades and when you get really sick and your immune system is weak BAM hello remember me.
I am not saying don't look at the effectiveness of vaccines and I am not saying that they are perfectly safe, but think of it this way: A vaccine is the antibiotic of the virus world -- the only difference is that you have to take it before you get exposed to the pathogen.
Sadly we have come to a point of anti-intellectualism in the US, over and over again it has been shown that we don't listen to those elitist scientists because they might know more than us. No we are smart and listen to the other parents because they know more than those white coats with their years of specialized education. Oh I should disclose that I am one of these scientists, a virologist in fact. I have also worked in clinics dealing with the I won't vaccinate my children bit; you can now feel free to ignore anything I have just written.
I believe I will make a simple statement regarding this atricle. Do we really know the ill effects these shots have on the immature systems of children? They prevent, mostly, simple childhood illnesses. I see no reason to give children in developed societies this barrage of innoculatons. Until we establish the cause for our mounting number of autism, asthma and allergy cases we should be very selective about what "shots" we give our kids. As a mother of a child with severe asthma I wish daily I had never gotten the DPT for my child. He is 30 now and does not have a day w/o symptoms.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTotally agree with you Mickeyscratches. I'm an immunologist by training and it boggles my mind how many people want to negate the benefits of vaccination because of one completely refuted study.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI think that the only way to prevent anti-vaccination people from continuing this thinking is to send them to a third world country that doesn't have these vaccines. They then can see the suffering that happens and decide if vaccines are still harmful.
You say: "When will American MD's come to there senses and realize the inherent value of encountering a real world pathogen" as if this is something people should innately know. Common sense medicine gave us exorcisms for mental illness and blood-letting.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThere is no scientific evidence that getting a disease is somehow superior to receiving a vaccine. While calling the author a blockhead, you don't cite one study or paper to back up your claim. And this is the problem with the antivax movement. There is lots of emotion, but no evidence. You get people all fired up with misinformation that is ultimately dangerous.
I wonder what the inherent value of encountering polio was?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDr.JFace, don't you know the answer to your question? Obviously the value of encountering polio is the possibility of getting poliomyelitis. But honestly I am preaching to the choir, average person not exactly on board with our elitist knowledge.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLet me quote something from the NSF Website that pretty much shows the lack of understanding by the general public:
"Neither the U.S. survey nor the Eurobarometer has shown much change in the public's level of knowledge about science, with one exception: the number of people who know that antibiotics do not kill viruses has been increasing. In 2001, for the first time, a majority (51 percent) of U.S. respondents answered this question correctly, up from 40 percent in 1995. In Europe, 40 percent of respondents answered the question correctly in 2001, compared with only 27 percent in 1992."
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind04/c7/c7s2.htm
Perhaps we can ask some of the parents who refused to vaccinate their children and then had them get sick or die to talk to those who refuse inoculations.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI'm sure we could find people willing, in the name of solidarity and common humanity, to share the details of their previous bad judgment with others.
As to the vaccine naysayers, please warn me in advance of your beliefs, so that I may make an informed decision before coming in contact with you or your families.
You're missing my point entirely. Those 12 studies are just refuting Wakefield. Great. TALK ABOUT MORE THAN AUTISM. Did you even finish reading what I wrote? I want the studies and analysis on serotype replacement, shingles in 20-year-olds, hep b for newborns, etc. You have to do more to convince me to give my kid 30+ shots before she's 5 than say, "look, it doesn't cause autism."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWOW... scary that readers of SA are quibbling with vetted evidence-based vaccination guidelines for children! Beyond doubt, vaccines are among, if not the pinnacle, of modern medicine's achievements... although the list for candidates is long.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisReminds me of those who attempt to tumble the towering edifice of evolution with their goofy, uninformed arguments... sheesh!
Regarding the Hep B vaccine... it was initially given only in the setting of a Hep B [+] women giving birth, to reduce the risk of "vertical" transmission to the infant... along with immunoglobulin prophylaxis. However, after lengthy study ... it was found that the only strategy to reduce the huge prevalance of Hepatitis B infection was universal vaccination. BTW, there over 2 BILLION affected globally... so... ummm... it's a bit of a public health issue... duh.
Hopefully the other vaccines scheduled are rather self-evident. Take HiB for example: prior to vaccination, the major pathogen in childhood (bacterial) menigitis in this country (no longer... now Pneumococcus and Neisseria sp.)... but remains a major pathogen where vaccinations are not given.
Parents who put their children at-risk despite the recommendations from our best medical minds at the CDC and American Academy of Pediatrics (not to mention the overwhelming evidence of published studies)... are willfully foolish and negligent.
Oh well... perhaps their children will enjoy their home-schoolin', devoid of any real science:-)
Actually I think the burden of proof is on the anti-vaccine camp.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe problem with your comment is that you essentially want SA to do a complete literature screen and review for you. If you want those studies go do a PubMed search. Put your own limits on the results that you get back and then make an informed decision. But, if you are not a trained scientist (i.e. MD/DO or PhD or MS) then it's probably going to be very hard for you to understand the true meaning of the data.
(Note: the last statement does not carry any inference or implication of you being dumb etc. Reading primary literature is difficult and requires advanced knowledge in the subject to really understand. It's not like reading the newspaper).
And many advanced medicine countries (i.e. Germany, England) have very similar vaccination schedules. Why use such a broad brush in your statements?
You want HepB stuff. Here's a cdc link: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hepb/downloads/dis-hepB-bw-office.pdf
And for years the CDC has been coming at you with "real science" and you have chosen to completely ignore it for the sake of your argument.
Start with this and go from there.
I also find it comical that you wanted me to talk about more then autism and then your last statement was "You have to do more to convince me to give my kid 30+ shots before she's 5 than say, "look, it doesn't cause autism."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYeah, exactly.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"I want the studies and analysis..."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThen go look them up. There is a ton of information out there.
First off, there are clinical trials for vaccines, as required by law. The results are freely available:
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=MMR
There is a huge amount of research on vaccine safety:
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=0&q=vaccine+safety&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5
And there are plenty of long-term, permanent vaccine safety monitoring programs, like the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Activities/VSD.html
and the Vaccine Adverse Effects Reporting system:
http://vaers.hhs.gov/index
Evidence overwhelmingly shows they are safe. Are these studies perfect? No, of course not. However, at this point, the level of risk from a vaccine is far lower than the risk of infectious disease:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#risk
Instead of just spreading FUD with no evidence, do some research first. If you're going to try to convince other people on the internet to change their behavior to something that is risky, come prepared!
Friends, Sadly, I was also disappointed in your article. While straight talk is surely needed, your article did not add anything new to the conversation. It makes me wonder if you know your audience, because you seem to be talking down to us. Frankly, I could use some up-to-date information on this important topic. Please try again.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBayougoddess, you make a number of cognitive errors in your posting.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"Do we really know the ill effects these shots have on the immature systems of children? They prevent, mostly, simple childhood illnesses."
Actually, yes we do know, and no, these are not simple childhood illnesses as illustrated in the article, but potential killers of your child or of your neighbors' children, as well as lot time in education and lost money to the economy when parents stay home to care for them (or are quarantined).
"Until we establish the cause for our mounting number of autism, asthma and allergy cases we should be very selective about what "shots" we give our kids."
You are making the argument, "We don't know what causes autism, asthma and allergies, therefore we should not vaccinate our children against disease." Perhaps I could make a similar argument like this, "We don't know what causes autism, asthma and allergies, therefore we should not let them watch TV or eat bananas." It probably sounds silly my way, but there is just as much evidence linking TV viewing and banana consumption to those conditions as there is immunizations, i.e. none at all. And there is a provable benefit of immunizing, as opposed to TV watching or banana eating. Just because we do not fully understanding the causes of these conditions does not mean that we are ignorant of what *doesn't* cause them. Don't feel any guilt about your son's asthma - it did not come from the DTP vaccine you authorized.
"As a mother of a child with severe asthma I wish daily I had never gotten the DPT for my child. He is 30 now and does not have a day w/o symptoms."
And as the father of a daughter who has asthma, I am glad she has had her immunization shots and gets her yearly flu shot, since she is more susceptible to severe complications of the flu. How do you think your son would have fared if you (and others) really had chosen not to immunize against whooping cough and was part of an outbreak? How would you feel if your son contracted whooping cough and survived, but passed it on to my daughter, who subsequently died of it? How would I feel about your "choice?" How would you? Here you are again linking two things that are not related - DPT and asthma - while ignoring the proven benefit of immunization.
I'm sorry about your son's asthma as I am sorry about my daughter's asthma, but advocating skipping childhood immunization to endanger them in additional ways is not a very good answer.
My kids will never eat bananas while watching TV again.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"This is the one subject the SA continually reports in an unbalanced manner."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSA also pays little attention to the arguments put forth by creationists, 9/11 Truthers, Obama Birthers, and people who think the moon landing was a hoax. So congratulations, econnell, on the company you keep.
Admire your energy in responding to the... um... non-evidenced based among us! However, as many "exchanges" with those who wish to infuse their religious biases into the world o' science (think "intelligent design".. "irreducible complexity" as the trojan horses for biblical creationism)... it usually fails to get past the hardened neural pathways of indoctrinated dogma. But hey... keep tryin'!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTo anyone who says we do know all there is to know about vaccinations I say bunk! Just the fact that you say we know all discredits your point of view. Not only is that very, very bad science but it's a total lack of common sense.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this**Blank stare**
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNobody said that we know everything about vaccines. In fact, the beauty of the scientific method is that it actively invites people to challenge results. But the fact is, a mountain of studies show that vaccines are safe and effective, and very little counter evidence exists.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOh my goodness - I have inadvertently created a new fear, uncertainty, doubt meme.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHow can I forgive myself?
On the other hand, I see a lucrative book deal in my future: "Musa Video: the Hidden Scourge Preying on Your Children!!!!!!!"
Were I to lose all integrity, anyway...
SA seems to support government programs like vaccination, and GM foods. Balanced reporting would be a great improvement.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSo if the article listed pros and cons of vaccines, would all of the anti-vaccine people be bashing it for the pro-vaccine stance?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPure "Science" has no bias. This debate unfortunately is polarised from the outset, and to date I see no current, truly independent research on the harm or benefit from vaccination, that is approached with an open mind. The problem fundamentally is the huge existing business investment into the vaccination drugs, and the disencentive for anyone to conduct such research that may call their overall benefit into question. Like climate research, the "tune is called by he who pays the piper", and phrases uttered by so called scientists that "the science is settled" etc, are most frustrating, if not insulting, to the intelligent and discriminating reader. I'm looking at graphs published by the UK Government, showing deaths rates in children from whooping cough and measles, and it appears these where already (>90%) on the way out before vaccination was introduced. When details like this are considered, one cannot be blamed for being cynical about pro-vaccination advocates, who have selective memory.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPlease cite these graphs.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this1) I think the issue that scientists don't approach issues with an open mind is ridiculous. If you don't have an open mind, then you're not a scientist.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this2) "phrases uttered by so called scientists that "the science is settled" etc, are most frustrating, if not insulting, to the intelligent and discriminating reader." While science can never say anything to 100%, it's pretty clear that vaccinations are helpful. But this is a redundant argument. You know what is frustrating to scientists? Having non-scientists tell us that we are not open minded and don't know how to interpret data.
If we take your argument at face value, then we need to assume all scientific research is bunk. Where does that leave us? How do we rigorously determine the truth of any statements? Do we just trust our guts for all decisions? Should I rely on anonymous people on the internet?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAt the same time, you seem to be implying some kind of global conspiracy to cover results. Do you believe the results of studies like this one: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134 have been faked? Or are there methodological errors? If so, what?
Let me give a counter argument: vaccines make up about 1.5% of all pharma revenues worldwide (http://www.evm-vaccines.org/pdfs/mfrs_in_figures.pdf). Even worse, they have much lower profit margins than other drugs (http://www.economist.com/node/8820542). The reasons is that many drugs have to be taken every day for the rest of a person's life, where each person generally only receives one vaccine.
Yet, at the same time, there have been plenty of papers showing bad side effects of other drugs. For example http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/298/10/1189.short talks about risk of heart failure with a diabetes drugs. Many drugs have been pulled from the market when adverse reactions have been found (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_withdrawn_drugs)
So, how is it that the drug industry is suppressing all evidence of the dangers of one of their smallest profit centers while somehow allowing their more profitable drugs to be pulled? This doesn't make any sense.
Also, you seem to be arguing that vaccines aren't necessary or they don't work. There is plenty of research on this too. For example:
Here's a randomized study of a pneumococcal vaccine:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673603140226
Here's a case control study of the MMR vaccine, using data from an outbreak in 1998.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X04007881
Here's another case control study from a 2004 mumps outbreak
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2913658/
I could post studies all day, but I don't think that will convince you. If you reject an organized system for proving or disproving data, there's no real room for debate.
The comments generated in response to this SA article are among the most interesting I have read regarding vaccination in the U.S. Although, many readers seem to be dissatisfied with the level of detail in this particular SA story, one could argue that one the main objectives of this-or any scientifically-centered journalism-is to generate discourse of a scientific subject among the public. It appears this story has done just that.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIn regards to these comments, thus far, I have concluded that SA readers:
1) do not appreciate to be "spoken down to" or to read "dumbed-down" analysis of important scientific issues,
2) generally have a high level of either experience or interest in scientific understanding,
3) demand to see and discuss more of the actual data behind the headline.
As an Immunology PhD student who is equally interested in laboratory science and science communication, I am particularly interested in what the public wants from the media in regards to scientific understanding and reporting.
If you are eager to learn more about the data behind the news stories you read, I welcome you to check out my Immunology Research Blog to find in-depth analysis and discussion regarding the latest published research in the fields of human health, medicine and immunology! http://escapinganergy.blogspot.com/
I agree. It's tiresome arguing with anti-vaccine people. But here's some more!!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this1) Vaccines not only prevent death but prevent the spread of disease and help prevent illness (or at least shorten the duration of illness).
2) That's all fine well and good that whooping cough deaths were decreased by 90% when the vaccines were developed. What about incidences of disease and not just death (see point 1)? What is the 90% arbitrary time point? Are you suggesting that those diseases were on their way to being eradicated? What happened to death rate at the time of vaccine distribution- did it trend in the same way (slowly down) or did it spike down?
3) Quantifying Child Mortality Reductions Related to Measles Vaccination http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013842
4) Impact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story http://ftp.fcs.uga.edu/cfd/cdl/docs/vaccines_exemptions.pdf
Check out the BMJ (http://www.bmj.com/content/286/6372/1208.1.full.pdf) where they state the drop in Whooping Cough from 1372 per million in 1860 to less than a hundred *prior* to the introduction of any vaccine. Further in that article, it also identified social class as a factor - from which it can be inferred that nutrition and sanitation to being contributory factors.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThere is also an aggregation of many relevant graphs from England, Australia, Africa and the Carribean at: http://www.americanchiropractic.net/immunizations/Disease%20decline%20before%20introduction%20of%20immunization.pdf - and also http://www.whale.to/a/graphs.html.
My comment about "open mind" referred to the research projects, not the researchers themselves. The mechanics of funding for any research in our current society (medical, climatic, energy etc) is that there has to be a ju$tifiable result.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis is not gratuitous cynicism. It is the reality of a world where government funding for research is managed to achieve a desired result.
And private funding by manufacturers is only there to support their products. We have seen the tobacco industry lie through their collective teeth, in courts, in the face of the obvious, and it does not stretch the imagination that large pharmaceutical businesses, reliant on these products for their bottom line, would not fund independent research, or release any negative findings they may come across.
Public health officials would have to have balls to instigate research that could potentially nullify decades of established public policy. And in countries with a litigious culture, open them up to being sued if it was found that autism, or worse, was a byproduct of their immunization policy.
Given those scenarios you can see my concern that there is no incentive anywhere for independent, "open minded" research.
Vatman is conflating "disease mortality" with "disease incidence." It's a common anti-vaccine gambit.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"It's tiresome arguing with anti-vaccine people."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis is the type of "speaking down" that indicates only a failure to present a rational and convincing article to those who wish to question established orthodoxy.
In this regard don't forget Galileo, who challenged the orthodoxy of the Vatican, is now attributed by many as the father of modern science.
A couple of years ago some reports by a small number owners of the Toyota Prius car indicated an issue that could cause the car to go out of control and crash, potentially causing death or injury. Immediately Toyota were required to defend their product, and in essence prove that their product was safe.
This has not happened to the manufacturers of various vaccines, even though there have been credible reports of issues. The fact that negative reports about vaccines are immediately downplayed, or, as indicated by some of the responses in this column, ridiculed, puts the health industry in a far "unhealthier" state than the vehicle or aviation industry, where safety first is evident.
And it's funny that the Hippocratic oath requires the doctor to "first do no harm".
1) Research projects are conducted by researchers so, in essence, saying research projects aren't 'open minded' is akin to saying the researchers themselves are not open-minded. After all, it is the researchers who write the grants for funding for the projects. The projects are a direct reflection of their thinking.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this2) I think it's funny that someone talking about researchers not being open-minded, seems to not be open-minded about the thousands of peer reviewed published literature citing the efficacy of vaccines.
3) Any responses to the studies that I and others have referenced?
4) Mortality is not the only thing that vaccines prevent. They prevent the spread of disease and reduce the incidences of infection. It's more important to evaluate how vaccines stop the spread of diseases. For example in those studies, what was the percentage of people INFECTED with the pathogen before vaccination, not that just died. What was the percentage of people INFECTED after vaccination?
5) You will never convince me that vaccines are bad, just like I'll never convince you that vaccines are good.
Further to your references ( and thankyou for them), it is interesting that there is funding made available to research the "anti-vaccine" movement, but little to research potential negative side effects. As mentioned elsewhere, this is the Public Health System protecting the orthodoxy.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJust labelling those who challenge an orthodoxy as 'anti-***' is a emotional response, not a scientific one.
We live in a world where a scientific approach is never possible in a pure form - we have politicians, commentators, businessmen, religions, and educators, all building and affecting our knowledgebase. As each of these are all human, with all their individual strengths & faults, the tool of science is used to benefit the wielder of that tool, and as such any knowledge held, must be able to be challenged openly by anyone, and the challenges used to strengthen, or weaken that collective knowledgebase.
The day we stop encouraging open debate, the world will cease to be a place worthy to live in.
"Given those scenarios you can see my concern that there is no incentive anywhere for independent, "open minded" research."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWith all due respect, I think that's a cop out. You're suggesting that the thousands of research studies that have been done on drug safety and efficacy should simply be discarded because there may be a conflict of interest. Given that, it would be impossible for anyone to prove to you either way whether these are safe.
But there are plenty of counterexamples that I believe refute your statement. First off, a ton of government funded research came out to show the harmful effects of smoking. Despite the fact that tobacco executives did lie through their teeth, ultimately, people were alerted the the health threats which suggests the system works at least some of the time.
Furthermore, there are plenty of drugs that have been recalled after research. Here's a list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_withdrawn_drugs
As I posted earlier, vaccines make up a tiny portion of overall drug profits, so why would it be that they have managed to suppress any research about vaccines but there's plenty that has caused recall of more profitable drugs. Why would they so tenaciously defend such a small profit center? It just doesn't fit.
I don't see how labeling those who challenge vaccines as anti-vaccine is being emotional. By and large most of these challenges are baseless and emotional themselves. As others have pointed out, getting a vaccine approved requires much research on safety as well as efficacy.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBy your logic, it would be relatively impossible to prove or disprove anything about any topic in any arena. How is that open-minded?
Regardless we will disagree. That's totally fine, I respect your views.
"In this regard don't forget Galileo, who challenged the orthodoxy of the Vatican"
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBut it's not orthodoxy. You don't have to just believe blindly. All of the research reports are published and a substantial portion can be downloaded for free. That is the difference between science and religion.
The issue with your Prius example is that that there weren't thousands of independent research studies done around the world that disproved a link and then someone later found them to be wrong. I think the point you make is that science is fallible, and recognition of that fact is a central part of the scientific process and why scientists publish. However, in this case, there is an enormous amount of evidence that shows vaccines are safe and effective. I don't think we can just casually dismiss that.
This is _scientific_ american, and science is concerned with the pursuit of truth. Being balanced doesn't mean you need to give equal weight to ideas regardless of their merit. If I happen to advocate the position that hurricanes don't actually occur naturally but are instead created by the government in secret weather control experiments, is Scientific American obligated to give my theory equal page space when writing about hurricanes?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOne of the reasons there is a lot of vaccination paranoia is that too many media outlets have tried to be fair and have given non-experts lots of airtime to push their platform, even though the science behind them is incredibly shaky. It treats hard science as if it were some kind of philosophical debate or matter of opinion. These aren't opinions, they are backed by tons of empirical data.
"After all, it is the researchers who write the grants for funding for the projects. The projects are a direct reflection of their thinking".
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWell I guess then the system they work in trains them well. Look outside the loop. If your pay packet relies on getting project briefs accepted, then you will naturally focus on areas where you know will be accepted. In this regard I think that the scientific community is a classic case of the boiled frog syndrome. The fact that my questioning threatens some of you attests to that.
Taking a step back, what must be recognised is not the differences in our thinking, but the similarities. We all want a better society, free from pain and suffering. So that puts us on the same side.
However for every good attribute of any medicine, there is also a bad side. I have no doubt that some vaccines can be shown to have a benefit, whatever that is ... however there will always be collatoral damage to some degree, even if only side related.
As an example, I'm pretty handy around the house with a hammer, but my wife will tell you also of the things that went wrong, either from my use of the hammer, or the choice to use the hammer ( should have used a screwdriver instead ). Same with vaccines, I've no doubt they, along with most other pharmaceuticals have some benefit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are the panacea for all and sundry.
As a child I had all the usual, measles, chicken pox, mumps etc. We even hard parties where neighbours brought their kids to get them early. So as a principle our family was practicing immunization. However the issue with current practice is that it involves using devices and procedures, that in my opinion, may well be the cause of the collateral damage that is being experienced by some people. There are too many credible instances related to the procedure to discount - and to date I am concerned that there is not enough work being done to identify the cause.
In the long run this work may well benefit "mass immunization", but short sighted thinking has tended to generate a negative response - totally unlike what you see in avaiation where no stone is left unturned. Quite a different culture.
Jbush writes "There is no scientific evidence that getting disease is better than receiving a vaccine."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhat about Marc Bisson's study......jama.ama-assn.org/content/287/17/2211.short?
As for the benefits of fevers, there are studies on Interleukins and T cell proliferation during fever episodes. Try .........www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596539/pdf/yjbm00111-0052.pdf
Not many studies on the topic, I will admit. Do you think fevers are not beneficial? Like some kinda of vestigial response of no benefit to the mammalian host? Why do other species have fevers? Are you simply going to dismiss the relevance of fevers to this topic because there are not a large number of multi-million dollar double blind studies that conclude that fevers are beneficial? The problem is no one will make much money from such a study. And many companies have indeed profited from fever reduction. Does that make fevers bad?
@ Dr. Jface........I 'm not anti-vaccine, just critical of the US schedule. I realize the ethical limitations of control groups in vaccine trials, but no one addressed the self bias issue in the article and that is self serving.
"Well I guess then the system they work in trains them well. Look outside the loop. If your pay packet relies on getting project briefs accepted, then you will naturally focus on areas where you know will be accepted."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this- I completely disagree with this statement. It is incredibly hard to get funded for a project and it gets more difficult every grant year/cycle. Those who wish to get funded have to be incredibly critical of their own work and explore other potential explanations. In fact, every grant has a pitfalls/alternative section built in. This comment that you make demonstrates that you really don't have a strong understanding of what goes on in research circles.
"There are too many credible instances related to the procedure to discount - and to date I am concerned that there is not enough work being done to identify the cause."
- Again I disagree. For every credible instance you cite, there are hundreds of credible studies that support vacciniation. You are choosing to ignore these studies and/or label them as fundamentally flawed.
We'll just agree to disagree.
There is some debate about whether varicella vaccines increase incidents of HZ. For example, there was a follow up study:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://jid.oxfordjournals.org/content/191/12/2002.short
However, I stand corrected that there is no evidence.
That said, I still have a problem with what you are saying overall. As DrJFace pointed out eariler, the risk of contracting diseases like Hib Meningitis and Polio certainly outweigh any potential benefits that would come from having the disease (which I don't think anyone has even purported). The issue is that your argument doesn't seem to be structured as a nuanced discussion of specific vaccines, but overall mistrust of vaccines in general, which I believe is incredibly misguided and dangerous. Many parents would read what you've wrote and assume the whole concept of vaccination is a sham. It's not.
While fevers certainly have a purpose when someone is sick, it seems like an incredible stretch to say that the benefits of fevers are a valid reason to skip vaccinations. The research you cited doesn't seem to assert that. I'd also point out that mild fever is a common side effect of vaccination. Both of my children had fevers after some of their shots.
Some comments on here really show me how uneducated most people are about non-vaxers and vaccines. One comments stated “non vaccinating group be more likely to feed there offspring pop tarts and pepsi for breakfast since they neglected to get their offspring vaccinations”. If you were to educate yourself, you would know that most of the non-vaxers feed their kids a better/healthier diet than vaccinators do. We believe in using good healthy foods to strengthen the immune systems of our kids, not to rely on chemicals/poisons. We use homeopathic remedies, healthy foods and generally have a healthier lifestyle. Who is using vaccines? Those who believe that the CDC, government and pharmaceutical companies would never lie to them or put their kids in danger. Many if not most of the non-vaxers are college educated, we know how to research and to analyze what we learn. We are doctors, researchers, scientists, parents who have had vaccine injured children and parents who don’t want vaccine injured children. The CDC and other entities resort to fear mongering, name calling, derogatory comments and downright lying because they cannot prove their case with real science. Most of the studies out there that show vaccines are safe are actually from the pharmaceutical companies or the CDC. Can any one of you show me a study that shows vaccines are safe and effective, that isn’t from or funded by the CDC, pharmaceutical companies or that doesn’t profit from these entities either by money or jobs given? I can sit here all week and show study after study that shows vaccines are not safe or effective. The CDC has a chart in its website showing how the illnesses have decreased since administering the vaccines. But what it doesn’t show is that between 1915 and the 1950’s the mortality rate of these illnesses dropped 95%, before vaccines were introduced. They also don’t tell you that the CDC falsified reports--ignoring up to 3,587 Miscarriages from H1N1 Vaccine, and that many people have had seizures after the flu vaccines. They also don’t tell you that a study conducted by the CDC in 1999-2000 and conducted by Dr. Thomas Verstraeten, confirmed that thimerosal/mercury was statistically shown to be the cause for the rise in autism cases. HOWEVER... in June 2000, a group of top government scientists and health officials gathered for a meeting at the isolated Simpsonwood conference center in Norcross, Georgia, and spent the next two days discussing how to cover up the damaging data. They don’t tell you that a new study just came out that reports that countries with larger vaccine schedules also have higher infant mortality rates. When Japan changed its vaccine schedule from 3 months old to giving them at 2 years old, the rates of SIDS decreased dramatically. In the UK between 1970 and 1990, over 200,000 cases of whooping cough occurred in fully vaccinated children. . - In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. In 1979, Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine due to its ineffectiveness. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times! In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children less than 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated. In 20009, a swine flu pandemic swept through Britain despite the fact that 70 percent of Britain's over-65 population was vaccinated against swine flu the year before. In 2010, that number was nearly the same -- 68.5% -- but flu vaccine proponents insist that until everyone is vaccinated, the flu will continue to infect people. A quote from the CDC, “The last cases of naturally occurring polio infection (known as "wild polio") acquired in the United States were reported in 1979. In the following two decades, only 152 cases of polio were reported, most of them vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP), a rare complication that strikes 1 in 2 million to 3 million people who receive the oral (by mouth) polio vaccine.” This is coming from the MMWR, which is the CDC’s own weekly publication. Here are 2 examples showing that we’ve always known that vaccinated kids can contract measles from the MMR vaccine itself. “From December 9, 1983, to January 13, 1984, 21 cases of measles occurred in Sangamon County, Illinois.* Nine of the cases were confirmed serologically. The outbreak involved 16 high school students, all of whom had histories of measles vaccination after 15 months of age documented in their school health records. Of the five remaining cases, four occurred in unvaccinated preschool children, two of whom were under 15 months of age, and one case occurred in a previously vaccinated college student.” The affected high school had 276 students and was in the same building as a junior high school with 135 students. A review of health records in the high school showed that all 411 students had documentation of measles vaccination on or after the first birthday, in accordance with Illinois law. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe other example is almost identical. It took place at a Corpus Christi Texas high school where 14 students came down with measles after 99% of the student population had gotten the MMR shot. And that’s from the New England Journal of Medicine. “We conclude that outbreaks of measles can occur in secondary schools, even when more than 99 percent of the students have been vaccinated and more than 95 percent are immune. (N Engl J Med 1987; 316:771–4.)” http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198703263161303 Why is it that when they do these articles about “outbreaks” they never tell how many of these kids are vaccinated or unvaccinated, they always make it sound like the kids are unvaccinated.
Totally changed my views with your rant. Good job.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIn an article in Reuters, May 2007, an infant was infected with smallpox from his father’s vaccination. Smallpox was found all over the house. This shows that these vaccinations shed to other people. So if you are out getting your children vaccinated thinking that this will help protect babies from getting sick, you are believing the lie. Jonas Salk admitted that his oral polio vaccine was causing the majority of the cases of polio at that time. A major concern about the oral polio vaccine is its known ability to revert to a form that can achieve neurological infection and cause paralysis. Clinical disease, including paralysis, caused by vaccine-derived poliovirus is indistinguishable from that caused by wild polioviruses. And now Bill Gates is donating billions of dollars to have third world countries administer the oral polio vaccine to its children. Paul Offit, the man that all the pro-vax people hold up as the expert, says that Bill Gate’s campaign is causing polio. In an interview with CNN, Bill Gates clearly states that the child deaths and sickness are not the only benefits of an extensive vaccination program, but "population control" is an equally beneficial effect.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThere have been studies done in the Netherlands that shows that the number of illnesses/diseases/autism are greater in vaccinated children than in unvaccinated children. New American research shows that there could be a link between the controversial MMR triple vaccine and autism and bowel disease in children. The study appears to confirm the findings of British doctor Andrew Wakefield, who caused a storm in 1998 by suggesting a possible link.
Now a team from the Wake Forest University School of Medicine in North Carolina is examining 275 children with regressive autism and bowel disease – and of the 82 tested so far, 70 prove positive for the measles virus. Just months following the US Court of Federal Claims rejection of the claim that the MMR vaccine causes autism, there is data from formal peer refereed medical papers showing that vaccines caused autism in British and in Japanese children and will be doing the same to children around the world. The number of Japanese children developing autism rose and fell in direct proportion to the number of children vaccinated each year.
The former CDC chief admitted that there was a link between autism and vaccines, and the she went to work for Merk. The government has paid out millions to families that have shown that their child’s autism was caused by vaccines. However, in court they are not allowed to say “autism” they are only allowed to give the symptoms or injuries that the children have had, all of these symptoms/injuries are the same as found in autism. These children have autism diagnoses from doctors.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPeople always bring up autism and vaccines. Autism is not the only worry we have; there are also seizures that lead to permanent disabilities or death, autoimmune disorder and many more problems that these poisons cause. You are told that mercury was removed from all vaccines. If you go onto the CDC website you will see that 9 vaccines still contain thimerasol. According to the FDA, thimerasol is 50% mercury. They will tell it is “trace amounts” of thimerasol, however: * 0.5 parts per billion (ppb) mercury = Kills human neuroblastoma cells
* 2 ppb mercury = U.S. EPA limit for drinking water
* 20 ppb mercury = Neurite membrane structure destroyed
* 200 ppb mercury = level in liquid the EPA classifies as hazardous waste
* 600 ppb mercury = Level in a currently licensed Hepatitis B, multi-dose vaccine vial, labeled as trace. This is administered at birth.
* 25,000 ppb mercury = Concentration of mercury in multi-dose, Hepatitis B vaccine vials, administered at birth from 1990-2000 in the U.S. Not administered at birth in any other developed country.
* 50,000 ppb mercury = Concentration of mercury in DTaP and Haemophilus B vaccine administered 8 times in the 1990′s to children at 2, 4, 6, 12 and 18 months of age. Current “preservative” level mercury in flu, meningococcal and tetanus (7 and older) vaccines.
Symptoms of mercury toxicity match those of autism. Note that thimerosal is extremely toxic by all routes of administration. There is no safe level of exposure.
Eli Lilly Material Safety Data Sheet: Exposure to mercury in utero and in children may cause mild to severe mental retardation and mild to severe motor coordination impairment.
And that is just thimerasol.
Aluminum mixed with thimerasol is toxic. They are in 4 vaccines together. Aluminum causes neuron death. It plays a role in neurodegenerative diseases (Alzheimer's, Autism, Parkinson's, seizures, comas, others), blood disease, bone disease, and other serious conditions. Aluminum has no known benefit in the human body. Aluminum is in 19 vaccines.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisGovernment records prominently states under Drug Warnings that sorbitol is not to be injected, yet it is in the MMR and MMRV vaccinations. (cell death), and DNA fragmentation. In general, sorbitol induces cell hyperosmotic stress resulting in phosphorylation (gastrointestinal or liver toxicant. Plays a vital step in the 'polyol pathway'. The sudden injection of extra sorbitol can ruin the equilibrium of enzymes that regulate the conversion of glucose to fructose in a process associated with the onset of diabetes and its complications. Further, the polyol pathway is involved with a complex network of metabolic activities; disruption leads to a cascade of problems such as mitochondrial failure, cell apoptosis uptake of phosphorus into cell) -- an important on/off switch regulating enzymes and signaling networks.
And these are just a few of the toxic ingredients along with formaldehyde, beta-propiolactone, mono-sodium glutamate, phenol (toxic at all levels) and Polysorbates which have been shown to cause dangerous, sometimes fatal effects, when given through a needle (13 of the vaccines).According to the FDA website: 8 vaccines contain forms of aborted fetal tissue (Fetal Cell Line Wistar RA 27/3, Fetal Cell Line WI-38, and MRC-5), human serum albumin (from human blood), genetically engineered human albumin, and DNA. MMR (MMRII), Chic Pox (Varivax), Chic Pox/MMR (ProQuad), Hep A (Havrix), Hep A (Vaqta), DTap/Hib/Polio (Pentacel), Rabies (ImoVax) and Rabies (RabAvert). According to a retired pharmaceutical scientist: 23 vaccines contain DNA. According to the CDC website: 6 vaccines contain either aborted fetal tissues, human serum albumin or DNA. Fetal Cell Line: MRC-5, WI-38, RA27/3 (also note the RA27/3 strain of rubella virus was observed to induce brain cell death), WI-26 VA4, HEK-293, and IMR-90. PER.C6 is a newer cell line developed by Crucell and licensed by Merck. According to this document, the fetus was healthy and normal when killed at 18 weeks. The mother decided to abort because she was unsure who the father was. At the outset PER.C6 was started for the sole purpose of vaccine development. This 2005 patent reads on line 0224, "Human embryonic retinoblast (HER) cells were isolated from the eyes of aborted fetuses of 18 and 21 weeks of age." (The patent is prefaced by this 2001 application assigned to Crucell). This research illustrates how the PER.C6 cell line is being promoted for use in flu, HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria, rabies, cancer, and other vaccines.
"In an article in Reuters, May 2007, an infant was infected with smallpox from his fathers vaccination. Smallpox was found all over the house.This shows that these vaccinations shed to other people."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this- Are you familiar with the smallpox vaccine? The smallpox vaccine isn't smallpox- it's a similar pox virus called vaccinia virus that is no where near as deadly. The method of administration is pricking the virus onto the arm. Had the father taken better care of the vaccine site there wouldn't have been any problems (I've been vaccinated against smallpox).
- In fact, are you familiar with how vaccines work? Do you have advanced training in biology?
A family in Great Britain lost their two year old on August 21, 2011. He had his 6 month old shots and immediately started having seizures. He continued having these seizures, for 18 months, even though they pumped more medications into him. The doctors claim that it was the seizures that killed him, but it was the vaccines that caused the seizures, so in essence the vaccines caused his death. Right now there is another little baby girl in a hospital. Her father went against her mother’s wishes and took her in for her 6 month old shots. Immediately, in the doctor’s office, she began having seizures. By that afternoon she was in NICU. August 16th, she was unable to breathe on her own and the doctors said she would have brain damage from the seizures. August 23rd, this little 6 month old baby was going to be removed from life support. The Grandmother, who called the father to take the baby for the shots, tried to commit suicide.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWe have story after story, family after family, who has gone through seeing their children suffer from these vaccines. Do you know how hard it is to watch your baby suffer, to watch them be healthy and normal and then to watch them get these poisons administered and then regress into autism, have seizures or die? Do you know how frustrated and angry it makes us that you all are buying the lies and letting this happen to more kids. There are more kids who are vaccine injured/dead than there are kids who die from these illnesses. It has never been proven that vaccines erradicated these illnesses, nor have they ever done long term studies on the effects of the vaccines.
Another comment touched on Andrew Wakefield’s study being a fraud. Yes, it was all over the news however this is the truth of the matter: The media reported that his study was a fraud. They said that it had never been replicated. The truth is that it was done 2 years prior by 2 other researchers and a presentation was given to the Royal Free Hospital. Wakefield’s study wasn't even about autism and vaccines. It was about gastro intestinal problems in children with autism. The media claimed that he said there was a link. In his paper he said that there was enough evidence that it should be studied further. It was also reported that the other researchers on the study had retracted their findings. "We wish to make it clear that in this paper no causal link was established between MMR vaccine and autism as the data was insufficient. However, the possibility of such a link was raised and consequent events have had major implications for public health. In view of this, we consider now is the appropriate time that we should together formally retract the interpretation placed upon these findings in the paper, according to precedent."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAgain, the original case report itself never interpreted the data as establishing a causal link between MMR and autism, so there was no "causal" interpretation to retract.
It has also been proven in court documents in Australia that Merck, the makers of Viox had internal emails where employees discuss “destroying" doctors critical of their products "where they live". MMR is a Merck product. Dr. Wakefield, Professor Walker-Smith and Professor Murch all lived in the UK at the time this study was conducted. Merck is the manufacturer of the MMR vaccines. If the Lancet case report did not say MMR causes autism, and if his collection of biopsies for research purposes was pre-approved by the Ethical Practices Committee, why is there a case against Dr. Wakefield (and colleagues)?
Medical authorities in the UK (and the United States) do not like it when licensed medical professionals ask questions about vaccine safety. Licensed medical professionals and medical researchers who question vaccine safety are more difficult to dismiss than parents who notice adverse reactions after vaccination.
The prosecution of Dr. Wakefield, Professor Walker-Smith and Professor Murch is an example and warning to other licensed medical professionals and researchers. The warning is clear: If you question the safety of a vaccine, you put your license and career at risk. It was also never reported that the author who supposedly found that the study was a fraud, actually committed fraud himself while investigating. Now the parents of the children in the study are going after the British Medical Journal and Deer and wanting to find out how they got the medical records. If you actually go on and listen to Wakefield about his study, you might learn something.
“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”
Arthur Schopenhauer
German philosopher (1788 - 1860)
“You cannot be in the presence of a profoundly vaccine damaged child and not know that child could be your own. And you cannot try to comfort a mother who has just buried a baby who has died from a vaccine … and not know that you could be the one standing over the grave. When it happens to your child, the risks are 100 percent.”
~Anonymous
It would also be nice if you wanted to have a debate, that you actually debated with things that you have to say. Resist the urge to copy and paste.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe pro-vaccine camp is being accused of blindly following the government and not questioning the safety of vaccines (this despite the years of research showing safety and efficacy). The ironic thing is that the anti-vaccine group could be viewed as also blindly following people who promoter their agenda.
It doesn't matter how many studies you show to me that state that vaccines are safe or effective. Unless you can show me some that don't profit from the pharmaceutical companies or the CDC or any other governmental agencies. When you show me a doctor who believes in vaccinations, you are showing me a doctor who has bought into the lie and has not done their research, or you are showing me a doctor who is receiving kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies. We may "just be parents" but we do know when our children have been damaged by a medication. At the age of 15 months, my son was vaccine injured. He regressed from a bright, normal boy into being "out in space". We knew there was a problem, but not one doctor advised us on having him tested. At the age of 10, he was diagnosed as having ADHd. The doc put him on Concerta, he had terrible hallucinations. 6 months later, he was diagnosed as bipoler, having anxiety and adhd. He was put on Abilify, Strattera and Sertraline. He became combative, angry, aggressive,emotional, pooped his pants at school daily, started having whole body uncontrollable shaking and startd licking his lips until they were bleeding. The doc wanted to up his meds. I removed him from the meds. In my research I found that abilify is not even recommended under the age of 18, causes tic disorder and tardive dyskenesia (uncontrollable shaking). Two of the meds together causes mania in patients who are bipoler. It took a couple months to stop these behaviours/symptoms. We had him tested by a specialist and found he is autistic and isnt' biplor, have anxiety or adhd. I read recently where more bipoler children were being institutionalized because of these behaviours. Well, take them off the meds!! The known side effects of the meds are causing these kids to be hospitalized. My son's experience and my own experience with my health scare is why I have no trust in doctors or pharmceutical companies. They make billions off of these poisons, they don't care who they damage.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDrJFace: Yes I copied and pasted, however I opened a blank document, typed in my information as is posted on this site. I typed it all before I put it on here because I wanted my thoughts and information to be clear. I had points I wanted to touch on and wanted to make sure I presented our case against vaccines. I could debate you all day long on this information. Sadly, it will take one of your children or grandchildren to be injured/dead before you will understand or believe us. There are many doctors who are actually speaking out against vaccines, but you all think you know better, you are more educated, you know the truth. The truth is....that you do not know the truth, nor are you willing to even investigate the information that we give to you. You are not open minded enough to actually go and read the studies that we site. That is why I am not spending any more time with you on this issue.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWell your thoughts and information was jumbled and incredibly unclear. As for making a case against vaccines it was a terrible job (and you labeled the government as fear mongers..jeez).
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAnd we've been having nice discussions on here with both sides going and reading/perusing articles that the others have cited. You seem to be only capable of regurgitating what others have put into words. Now tell me who is unable to be open minded.
I'm sorry that those things have happened to your child. However, because they have it's not a reason to lash out and try to discount thousand upon thousands of studies that prove otherwise. It seems that the group think now is to say "oh well, it must be the vaccines because there are no other reasons that this could have happened." And that's a shame.
Continuing my post about my son......when he was diagnosed as having autism......he was also diagnosed as having a tic disorder (licking the lips) caused by the medication. He didn't have this tic disorder until he was on the medication. My advice to parents.....research everything before you give it to your child or yourself. Research all sided, look at the studies. Don't just blindly follow what is being told to you. Right now, they are telling you "NO Shots...No School", right? That in itself is a lie. They aren't telling you that most states have exemptions. All states have medical exemptions. All but 2 states have religious and philosophical/concientious exemptions. So right there they are lying telling you that it is mandatory, that it law that your children have to have these vaccinations. IN truth.......there are exemptions and they aren't that hard to get or to use. And it is law that the states have to allow these exemptions. Let's look at Rick Perry while he was governor of Texas....he tried to mandate the Gardasil vacccine. Aug 22, 2011 – According to VAERS analyst and SANE Vax team member Janny Stokvis, Governor Rick Perry should have been aware and taken action on the mounting injuries from Gardasil in Texas before an attempt to mandate the vaccine. VAERS reports one girl died post-Gardasil vaccination, there were 14 life-threatening situations and 31 girls became disabled after Perry’s attempt to issue an executive order. The effort to introduce the drug into Texas schools turned into one of Perry’s greatest defeats. According to the CDC:As of June 22, 2011 there have been a total 68 VAERS reports of death among those who have received Gardasil® . There were 54 reports among females, 3 were among males, and 11 were reports of unknown gender. According to our info there have been many more than that...84 deaths as of July 2011. The CDC doesn't count girls who left the office after having the shot, passing out and wrecking the car. They don't count girls who are healthy, have the shot, then all the sudden die a few days later from "unknown causes". That is the problem, unless the child goes into seizures or dies right in the office, they don't count them as being vaccine injured or dead.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou want me to site my info? http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198703263161303 http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/18/us-smallpox-boy-idUSN1744524120070518 . http://the-classic-liberal.com/creepy-bill-gates-population-control-video/ (2:49 into the video) http://coupmedia.org/vaccinations/bill-gates-admits-vaccination-population-control-on-cnn-0703 http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/dis-faqs.htm http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-388051/Scientists-fear-MMR-link-autism.html (http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/japvaxautism/#000_Top_of_Page) (Parran et al., Toxicol Sci 2005; 86: 132-140) (http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/index.html#mcls)(http://www.des.umd.edu/hw/rest/manual/codes.html) http://www.naturalhealthstrategies.com/ineffectiveness-of-vaccines.html Before you disregard this one.....go on look where they got their info. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20049118-10391695.html Vaccines and Autism, A new scientific review (cbs news investigation) Human DNA in vaccines http://www2a.cdc.gov/nip/isd/ycts/mod1/courses/flu/10205.asp?seg=A from CDC website. “Some contain thimerasol or traces of thimerasol”
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipientle-1.p-tab df ingredients list by ingredient
CDC Ingredients lists http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/additives.htm
http://www.vaccine-tlc.org/human.html I could spend the rest of my day trying to appease you, but I have other things to do. I have links to doctors against vaccines, quotes from docs against vaccines, links to articles about vaccines and dangers, the whole nine yards about vaccines, even from the CDC, BMJ, JAMA etc. People always want info from "credible" sources....what makes them credible? Because the government say so? Because doctors say so? Credible to me is a study done by researchers who do not stand to profit from the research and researchers who are willing to stand against status quo and tell the truth. By the way...Wakefield never intended to gain profit and he never made profit off his study. In my next post I will show you a study.....
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.....
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhk7-5eBCrs&feature=player_embedded
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/107993.php Infant Vaccines Produce Autism Symptoms In New Primate Study By University Of Pittsburgh Scientists "Findings released Friday showed that infant monkeys given vaccines officially recommended by the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) exhibited autism-like symptoms. Lead investigator Laura Hewitson of the University of Pittsburgh and colleagues presented study results at the International Meeting for Autism Research (IMFAR) in London. Safety studies of medicines are typically conducted in monkeys prior to use in humans, yet such basic research on the current childhood vaccination regimen has never before been done."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://stanford.wellsphere.com/autism-autism-spectrum-article/pediatric-vaccines-influence-primate-behavior/738643 Pediatric Vaccines Influence Primate Behavior, and Amygdala Growth and Opioid Ligand Binding Friday, May 16, 2008: IMFAR
L. Hewitson , Obstetrics, Gynecology and Reproductive Sciences, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA B. Lopresti , Radiology, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA C. Stott , Thoughtful House Center for Children, Austin, TX J. Tomko , Pittsburgh Development Center, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA L. Houser , Pittsburgh Development Center, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA E. Klein , Division of Laboratory Animal Resources, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA C. Castro , Obstetrics, Gynecology and Reproductive Sciences, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, PA G. Sackett , Psychology, Washington National Primate Research Center, Seattle, WA S. Gupta , Medicine, Pathology & Laboratory Medicine, University of California - Irvine, Irvine, CA D. Atwood , Chemistry, University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY L. Blue , Chemistry, University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY E. R. White , Chemistry, University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY A. Wakefield , Thoughtful House Center for Children, Austin, TX
Conclusions: This animal model, which examines for the first time, behavioral, functional, and neuromorphometric consequences of the childhood vaccine regimen, mimics certain neurological abnormalities of autism. The findings raise important safety issues while providing a potential model for examining aspects of causation and disease pathogenesis in acquired disorders of behavior and development.
Wakefield Monkey Studies of Vaccines show Neurological Damage: http://www.safeminds.org/news/wakefield-hewitson-mercury-hepB-vaccine.html
http://legaljustice4john.com/sbsPrimatesAutism.htm
Ok. Now point me to the published peer review studies please?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://www.vaccines.net/hepatiti.htm Disease Control, CDC, published data which supports a link between timing of immunization and the development of diabetes (Pharmacoepidemiology and Drug Safety Vol 6 Suppl. 2, S60; 1998). The data from the CDC's preliminary study supports published data that immunization starting after 2 months is associated with an increased risk of diabetes. French Public Health Officials (October 8, 1998) discontinue routine Hepatitis B immunization at school age but continue immunization at birth because of the concern regarding vaccine induced autoimmunity when hepatitis B immunization is started at school age. http://genesgreenbook.com/resources/obamsawin/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf FIGURE SET I.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNatural Infectious Disease Declines
Preceding Public Immunization Efforts
Figures one (1) through eleven (11) graphically illustrate that in North America, Europe, and the South Pacific , major declines in life-threatening infectious diseases occurred historically either without, or far in advance of public immunization efforts for specific diseases as listed. This provides irrefutable evidence that vaccines are not necessary for the effective elimination of a wide range of infectious diseases.
**shakes head in disbelief**
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI heard that rain drops falling on your face in August correlates with a 50% increase in a 30% decrease in incidences of poison ivy.
And what's with this citation if you're so anti-vaccine:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"French Public Health Officials (October 8, 1998) discontinue routine Hepatitis B immunization at school age but continue immunization at birth because of the concern regarding vaccine induced autoimmunity when hepatitis B immunization is started at school age."
- but continue immunization at birth......
Is it so impossible to believe that someone other than "peer" review researchers/studies could be correct? This is one of the tactics that pro-vaxers resort to...show me the peer review studies. Oh boy, when the media comes out talking about Wakefields fraud, you all sit up and listen. You bring his study up as "proof" that there all these researchers are idiots....look at your own researchers...http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vaccine-autism-researcher-indicted-for-fraud-120224134.html According to CoMeD, U.S. health agencies have relied upon these now questionable Danish studies to sanction the use of Thimerosal. CoMeD registered its concerns about Thorsen and his influence on these studies in a groundbreaking letter to Daniel R. Levinson, Inspector General the Department of Health and Human Services, on September 15, 2010. An international community of researchers and advocates signed onto the CoMeD letter. The Copenhagen Post reports:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"Over the four-year period he submitted over a dozen false invoices from the CDC for research expenses to Aarhus University, where he held a faculty position, instructing them to transfer the funds to a CDC account, which was in fact his personal account ...
Thorsen's research on autism is widely known in academic circles, where he was until this week a highly respected figure. A paper of his on the subject, which is known as 'The Danish Study', is quoted extensively to refute the autism vaccine connection."
Another prominent name in vaccine medicine, Dr. Paul Offit, well-known shill for the vaccine industry, has also been called out for making false and unsubstantiated statements about CBS News Investigative Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson and her report looking into the ties between vaccine supporters and the vaccine industry.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOn April 18, 2011, the California Orange County Register issued a retraction of an August 4, 2008 article containing disparaging statements made by Dr. Offit about Attkisson.
According to Adventures in Autism:
"Upon further review, it appears that a number of Dr. Offit's statements, as quoted in the OC Register article, were unsubstantiated and/or false. Attkisson had previously reported on the vaccine industry ties of Dr. Offit and others in a CBS Evening News report 'How Independent Are Vaccine Defenders?'"
The unsubstantiated statements included a claim that Attkisson "lied", and a claim that CBS News sent a "mean spirited and vituperative" email. Offit also told the OC Register that he provided CBS News "the details of his relationship ... with pharmaceutical company Merck", but documents provided by CBS News indicate Offit did not disclose all of his financial relationships with Merck.
It's convinent to dismiss peer review and accept all other 'reports' as evidence. Correlation does not equal causation...repeat over and over.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOh oh oh...I want to play a game. This link http://genesgreenbook.com/resources/obamsawin/ImmunizationGraphs-RO2009.pdf
Look at figure 1. In the figure legend click on the source link (it takes you here- to figure 8 http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/cig-gci/p04-meas-roug-eng.php)
What's different?
http://www.judicialwatch.org/gardasil
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisme too!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisImpact of anti-vaccine movements on pertussis control: the untold story
http://ftp.fcs.uga.edu/cfd/cdl/docs/vaccines_exemptions.pdf
Before 1978, measles was a minor self-limiting immune-building disease of childhood. You wanted your child to get it. Because then they would have lifetime immunity. Then in 1978, the MMR shot suddenly became part of the vaccine package for all kids. 3 doses. Even though the incidence was down by 90% by then.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAfter a decade or so, many incidents like the 2 I cited in a previous post, began occurring all over the country – groups of kids who obviously got measles from the shot itself. They got the exact disease the shot was pretending to prevent.
Such examples continue to the present.
So what does this mean?
First it means the vaccine doesn’t really work. It doesn’t provide the promised immunity from measles that they’re advertising.
Second, we have the principle of the atypical disease. That’s the term scientists use to describe a disease caused by vaccines. Remember, in all vaccines they never use the actual bug that is associated with the wild disease itself. Instead they use a laboratory mutation of the natural microbe which they make much more reactive, provoking a much stronger immune response. And that’s what’s in the vaccine. So through mass vaccination with mutated pathogens, we are creating brand new diseases that would have never evolved in nature. Atypical versions of the original disease.
So that’s what we’re seeing in these outbreaks. Manmade disease. Iatrogenic. The problem is, the atypical versions are much more dangerous than the original mild version, with far higher rates of death and complication. Everyone knows that adult onset measles is a potentially much more serious disease than the original childhood version.
Worse yet is that the adults who got the original mild childhood version of measles may not now be immune to the brand new Frankenstein version that has been created by our injudicious policy of mass vaccinating for a disease that had been part of building a child’s normal immune system for decades.
Phew. That is a lot of links.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMy own son was diagnosed with autism 2 years ago, and I understand your frustration. I certainly experienced anger and spent time trying to make sense of something that just doesn't. I think it's natural to try to find a cause, and certainly having someone to blame for what has happened is comforting in an odd way. But the simple fact is, we just don't understand what causes autism. However, the other fact is that the scientific community overwhelmingly has shown that autism and vaccines don't seem to be linked.
With all due respect, pasting a ton of useless links is not really helpful to anyone. For example, this (http://www.des.umd.edu/hw/rest/manual/codes.html) is just a list of designators for hazardous waste. It doesn't make any statements about whether these actually exist in the environment and definitely doesn't link anything to autism.
First off, I would encourage you to look to primary sources. You post a lot of media articles and anti-vax sites, but they all put their own spin on things and many of the most ardent anti-vax sites have a lot of information that is blatently wrong. If you find something interesting, fact check it by looking for a citation or trying to find the info yourself on a search engine PubMed or Google Scholar. I've spent a lot of time doing this, and far too often what is quoted was not actually accurate. Many of the most ardent anti-vax sites have information that is just plain wrong. There's no nicer way to say it.
I've mentioned previously that vaccine revenues globally constitute only 1.5% of pharma revenues (http://www.evm-vaccines.org/pdfs/mfrs_in_figures.pdf) and have lower profit margins than other drugs that people need to take every day, for example. Furthermore, there are plenty of cases where studies have resulted in much more profitable drugs being taken off the market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_withdrawn_drugs). So, it just doesn't make much sense that the big pharma boogeyman is fiercely protecting their smallest profit center.
Re Thimerisol, did you know that a tuna fish sandwich has significantly more mercury than most vaccines?
White tuna averaged 0.427 ppm (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/january/food/mercury-in-tuna/overview/index.htm). Assuming you were to eat 2.5 oz of tuna in a sandwich, you would end up getting 30 uG of mecury. The DTaP vaccine has < 0.3 uG of mecury, which is 1/100th of that (http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/UCM096228#t1)
You know DrJFAce.....first of all, are you even a doctor? You are the type of person who will never understand or be able to comprehend the pain and suffering of these children and families, until you or someone you love goes through it. YOu will always stick to your ideas that these "peer review" studies are the only ones that are right. I actually feel sorry for you because you are so narrow minded. If you are a doctor, I feel sorry for your patients. I feel sorry for the ones who you will cause damage to. I feel sorry for the people who look at your title, or your username on this site, and truly believe you have an idea about what is going on out here. You completely disregard that pain and suffering that these vaccines have caused. Here are a couple more links, I don't really care if you (DrjFace) actually look at them, but if I can reach someone else then good.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-case-against-immunizatons/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2IgLj2If44&feature=player_embedded Expert Pediatrician Discusses Vaccines (Part 1/11)
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/02/06/a-few-things-i-know/ A few things I know: Dr. Humphries
http://www.naturalnews.com/SpecialReports/VaccinesFullStory/v1/VaccineReport-EN.pdf
http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Your-Immune-System-How-It-Works-And-How-Vaccines-Damage-It The Medical Time Bomb Of Immunization Against Disease
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/mendelsohn.html
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2009/11/23/dont-look-dont-see-what-medical-literature-actually-reveals-about-vaccinology/ Don’t Look, Don’t See: What Medical Literature Actually Reveals about Vaccinology
Vaccination Dangers, What you Need to Know by Dr. John Martin http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Dr.+john+martin+vaccinations&search_type=&aq=f Contradictions between Medical Science and Immunization http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/vaccine_awareness/contradictions.htm
http://www.whale.to/m/quotes26.html (Doctors on Vaccinations quotes)
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/doctors_against_vaccines.htm
http://www.blatantpropaganda.org/propaganda/articles/vaccination_doctors.html Doctors Warn against vaccination
http://forums.about.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ab-pediatrics&tid=1636 Doctors warn against vaccination
http://www.naturalhealthstrategies.com/vaccine-safety.html Health professional speak out
http://www.truthhunters.co.uk/2011/07/04/vaccine-epidemic-a-doctors-view-of-vaccines/ Vaccine epidemis: A doctors view of vaccines.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Buzrz05iCUg Medical Doctor Retracts H1N1 Vaccine Advice After Reading Insert!
NOt for DrJface, he's too closed minded.....A VACCINE HORROR STORY
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://drlwilson.com/Articles/VACCINE%20HORROR.htm
http://www.mothering.com/community/t/572635/marissa-s-story http://5552109414171771253-a-1802744773732722657-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/redrockcloud/ParentsVoice%2CChildren%27sAdverseOutcomesFollowingVaccination.pdf?attachauth=ANoY7cojTTqLey7joebP6wMv34d-ZXub8gsrkHD99Bbj5TscZjdsMRc2phPF0X0Kdfuy-g-j5WdlNB9iCGLQ6zoZfaebFzFvIcyXWmNYhf025vIdnzNdNKdn32biEVKSbLFZIUPIR29bKUuKiGALHIW6H-6bBNYc64CZQUIk7_XcjN8rHFZZ0EM57HGXUVJcjbPaPL-RSbuB2tSEXgKHzlaq69PSouEhBYHkZNejtDh1vQwI2B3Q6WXU4lTWf_L3B-3B7U2j37bEtBImPGbEwUgMdmHHG5aehw%3D%3D&attredirects=0 Parents Voice: Children’s Adverse Outcomes Following Vaccination **Recent study on vaxed vs. non-vaxed kids - with graph** http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/Vacc%20vs%20unvacc%20results%20survey.pdf
Please look at these graphs****
http://www.omsj.org/corruption/fda-complicit-in-drug-fatalities http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFbs8s3VI6M&feature=related Ex-Pharmaceutical Rep. Speaks Out
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/12/29/60minutes/main7195247.shtml Glaxo Whistle-Blower Lawsuit: Bad Medicine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYOQRFNY90Y CableGate: Pfizer Used Dirty Tricks to Avoid Clinical Trial Payout
http://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/ What drug companies are paying your doctor
http://vactruth.com/2011/08/05/big-pharmas-share-in-the-consumer-price-index/?utm_source=The+Vaccine+Truth+Newsletter&utm_campaign=040207dd50-06_17_2011_Autism_2011&utm_medium=email Big Pharma’s Share in the Consumer Price Index
Do docs receive kickbacks from vaccinating: http://www.cafemom.com/group/4388/forums/read/9100435/
http://genesgreenbook.com/content/why-you-cant-believe-cdc
According To CIA Statistics: As Shots Increase, U.S. Lifespan Is DECREASING http://deathbyvaccination.com/
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this1) I have a PhD so yes.
2) I do sympathize for those who go through this ordeal. I apologize if I was snarky or gritty. It's not my intention to belittle anything that you have gone through. I understand how hard it is.
3) I asked you repeatedly if you were willing to have an honest debate instead of just blindly copying and pasting what other websites said.
4) But I am a scientist first. I read journal articles every single day and think about these issues a lot. I've never claimed that vaccines are 100% safe nor are they 100% effective but the benefits far outweigh the risks. That's the issue. Unfortunately, the onset of autism correlates in time to a series of vaccines. It's a totally natural response to feel that the vaccines cause autism. But science doesn't say that. We've been having a back and forth on this site the past few days and generally I've enjoyed both sides. But today you came on here with a totally emotional response blasting anyone who believes in science and peer review. Peer review is the best thing that has ever happened to research holding researchers to higher standards. Do you know what the average researcher (PhD- me) makes in a year considering all of their advanced training? Very little. Not close to the same as MD or DO would administering the vaccines.
You copy and pasted link after link of manipulated untrue information (in many cases). You copy and pasted paragraph after paragraph of news clippings. But when you were challenged to find some peer reviews things you blasted peer review. Doesn't this make you narrow minded too? That you have flat out chosen to reject teh scientific process because you feel it's all about money? That's ludicrious.
did you know that eating something and actually injecting it into your blood are two different things. We eat sorbitol, it is in many foods. But government records prominently states under Drug Warnings that sorbitol is not to be injected. It is in the MMR and MMRV vaccines.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI do not take peer review as the only source of information. There have been many studies done by researchers that haven't been in peer review journals. Just because it is peer review does not make it truth. Truth to me is my son who suffers everyday with his disabilites. Truth to me is my family, who suffers along with my son. Truth to me is all the other families out there who are crying out for someone to listen to them about these dangers of vaccines. Truth to me is a mother and father who is watching their child dying in front of them and being told that vaccines had nothing to do with it, even though they just got the shots and they were healthy before the shots.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAgain I sympathize for you and your family. But peer review is the only real way to address and publish rigorous scientific studies.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTruth for others is a family watching their child die because of not getting a widely available vaccine.
I believe in peer review. You don't. That's fine. But please don't come on here and blast away at those that believe in it like we are some close minded group.
I was not blasting the group. I was blasting you and others who will not even give any credit whatsoever to the idea or truth that vaccines are dangerous and are not one size fits all. I was blasting those out there who believe that anti-vaxers are just nutjobs. I am going to copy and paste a note written by someone I know....Many of us are lumped together in a big group and labeled “Anti-Vaxxers.” Some of us ARE Anti-Vaxxers. Some of us have been forced into being “Anti-Vaxxers” because we have no other choice. This is not a position we have chosen for ourselves and for many of us it is not an easy stance to take. We are simply doing our own research and weighing the costs-vs-benefits for our own children. At least that’s how it starts out. What happens in the process though, is we start to learn the truth about vaccines. We learn that they have not been studied for safety. We learn that they are implemented very quickly into the schedule without regard for their effects on “vulnerable populations.” As we research, we start to see patterns and we realize more and more how our children are not so rare, and how more children are being harmed everyday by mass vaccination. That’s when we become increasingly vocal. That’s when it becomes not just about protecting our children but about trying to protect your children, too. We realize that in many cases our concern for your children is not something you welcome. We realize that you wish we would just shut-up and go away. Many of us realize these things because we used to be you.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe reason we keep doing what we do is because we wish, beyond anything you can possibly comprehend, that someone would have done for us what we are trying to do for you.
You don’t have to agree with us. You don’t have to think we are right. You don’t have to be our friends.
We really do hope that you never know what it is like to be one of us. However, we also know that unless things change, our club is going to keep growing. If you become one of us, we will accept you unconditionally, and we will do everything we can to help you.
That’s just what we do.
And one more note from a friend: Okay. I give up.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisVaccines do not cause autism.
Autism is a behavioral diagnosis. In order to receive the diagnosis of “Autism” a child must exhibit a certain number of behaviors over a certain time frame. If he or she does not do so, the diagnosis of “autism” is not warranted.
There is no blood test for “autism.”
“Autism” can’t be confirmed or “ruled-out” by laboratory analysis. It’s strictly a behavioral diagnosis.
Therefore, anything that causes physiological damage cannot directly “cause” autism.
Ergo… vaccines cannot “cause” “autism.”
Vaccines cause other stuff.
Vaccines cause encephalitis.
Vaccines cause seizures.
Vaccines cause immune system deficiencies.
Vaccines cause gastrointestinal problems.
Encephalitis causes mood swings.
Encephalitis causes extreme pain.
Encephalitis causes inattention and impulsivity.
Encephalitis causes aggression.
Encephalitis causes balance problems and difficulty relating to one’s environment.
Seizures cause mood swings.
Seizures cause inattention and impulsivity.
Seizures cause alterations in conciousness.
Immune system deficiencies cause children to have more frequent bacterial infections, such as ear infections, upper respiratory infections (URIs), sinusutis, and strep infections.
Immune system deficiencies cause children to have more frequent viral infections, such as stomatitis, “fevers of unknown origin,” “viral rashes,” hives, conjunctivitis, and gastrointestinal viruses that cause vomiting and diarrhea.
Immune system deficiencies cause children to be more vulnerable to “everything that’s going around” and to have a tougher time getting over things than their peers.
Gastrointestinal damage from vaccines causes diarrhea.
Gastrointestinal damage from vaccines causes nausea, reflux, vomiting, and the recently discovered “disease” now known as GERD (Gastro-Esophageal Reflux Disease).
Gatrointestinal damage from vaccines causes increased vulnerability to viruses and bacteria, which leads to increased administration of antibiotics, which leads to overgrowth of pathogenic yeast.
Pathogenic yeast overgrowth leads to intestinal hyperpermeability (“leaky gut syndrome”).
Pathogenic yeast overgrowth leads to constipation.
Pathogenic yeast overgrowth leads to food allergies.
Pathogenic yeast overgrowth leads to skin eruptions, “drunken, silly behavior,” inattention and impulsivity, and cravings for bread, sugar, ice cream, milk, and carbohydrates.
Technically, vaccines do not cause autism because techincally there is no such thing as autism.
Vaccines cause the underlying physical conditions that result in the pain, neurological damage, immune system disorders, gastrointestinal damage, and yeast overgrowth – all of which combine to produce the behavioral symptoms that result in the “autism” diagnosis.
Gastrointestinal damage is the most obvious result of vaccine damage.
When a previously healthy child suddenly starts having multiple episodes of watery and extremely stinky diarrhea every day, and this happens shortly after receiving vaccinations, it is notable as a “vaccine injury.” What is not so obvious is that when the child’s gut is permanently damaged, he or she is no longer able to absorb nutrients necessary to produce neurotransmitters necessary for proper brain function. So when the child develops mood swings, sleep difficulties, and learning disabilities several months later, these issues are not recognized as being related to the vaccine injury because the initial damage occurred many months earlier.
Please re-read the previous paragraph.
This is why Dr. Andrew Wakefield is such a threat to the pharmaceutical industry.
Dr. Wakefield NEVER said vaccines cause autism.
Dr. Wakefield is a gastroenterologist. He saw a number of children with gastrointestinal problems who also happened to be diagnosed with autism. Dr. Wakefield reported his observations. He never claimed that the MMR “caused” autism. He merely reported that a number of children he had seen had BOTH gastrointestinal problems AND autism, and according to parental report, these issues developed within a short time of when the children received the MMR vaccine.
Again… Why is Dr. Wakefield such a threat to the pharmaceutical industry?
Hint: Not because vaccines cause autism – they don’t.
Vaccines cause gastrointestinal damage.
Gastrointestinal damage causes malabsorption of nutrients necessary for proper brain function.
Malabsorption of essential nutrients causes immune system disorders, seizures, encephalopathy, etc… and THAT’s what leads to the ultimate diagnosis of “autism.”
If Dr. Wakefield’s observations are correct, SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE will eventually draw the connection between vaccines and the domino-effect that leads to the “autism” diagnosis. From the perspective of the pharmaceutical industry, better to “nip it in the bud” now, which means discrediting Dr. Wakefield to the extent that no one will look further into the science.
Has this ploy worked?
Not for me. And not for many of the very intelligent parents I know.
Only time will tell if there are enough of us to make a difference.
http://vaccineinfo.net/victims/MTV_Issue3_Young_Family.pdf just food for thought....this was written by a doctor who had 4 vaccine injured children. This couple, as the parents were told that vaccines were safe and no the childrens reactions were not from vaccines. They continued to vaccinate as they were told to do. "No one wants a child to suffer for any reason. We are both
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishealth professionals and quite aware of the diseases we are trying to prevent."
Still don't believe it. Peer reviewed data is necessary. And still there are hundreds of studies that say vaccines are safe and effective. You're preaching to the wrong person with me. It's really not worth your time.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI will say that you do a fair amount of copying and pasting. I hope you do the same amount of thinking and don't just buy into it blindly. Oh wait that's me I forgot sorry.
marlenekay,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJust to take one very, very simple example, you posted:
"... Thomas Verstraeten, confirmed that thimerosal/mercury was statistically shown to be the cause for the rise in autism cases. ..."
Please Google "simpsonwood transcript" and read what he actually said.
If you can make it to page 44 of the PDF file, you will learn that in this huge study that compared vaccinated kids to 100% unvaccinated kids the results were:
"This is the result for autism, in which we don't see much of a trend except for a slight, but not significant, increase for the highest {thimerosal} exposure. The overall test for trend is statistically not significant."
Do you understand that Verstraeten's data was that there is no difference in risk for autism between partially vaccinated, fully vaccinated and 100% unvaccinated kids?
The site you cut/pasted from was not truthful. Did you notice the date? More than a 11 years later and the anti-vaccs are still twisting the basic facts.
Same basic idea with everything else you have posted. There is nothing you have cut/pasted that will stand-up to a good-faith effort on your part to fact-check.
Everything that you have posted has been rejected by society and marginalized to blogging on the web because they are simply wrong.
What this misinformation has done is to facilitate the loss of countless millions of dollars from vulnerable parents to snake-oil sellers.
I am sure we can all count on you to carefully read the Simpsoonwood transcript before you reply.
Cheers,
W&N
The only other thing I have to ad is that while you push your agenda (cafepress blogs etc) you have not once responded to any of the credible peer reviewed studies that I have cited (or others have cited). You posted a link to a pdf that blatantly graphs the data in a manipulative manner that looks nothing like the original data or graph. You have copied and pasted blog post after blog post that is full of misinformation.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf you want to push your agenda go do it somewhere else.
The only other thing I have to add is that while you push your agenda (cafepress blogs etc) you have not once responded to any of the credible peer reviewed studies that I have cited (or others have cited). You posted a link to a pdf that blatantly graphs the data in a manipulative manner that looks nothing like the original data or graph. You have copied and pasted blog post after blog post that is full of misinformation.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf you want to push your agenda go do it somewhere else.
I am not preaching it to you. I'm hoping to reach someone out there who actually can stop and get beyond their own "education and ego" to realize that the dangers are there and to get them to stop and ask themselves if the benefits are worth what it might cost them. You are already unreachable. Let's hope you don't end up being one of us because you lost a child from a vaccine injury.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisUnreachable = not brainwashed by misinformation and able to sort through scientific evidence and make informed unbiased decisions. That I am.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJbush- Thank you for the varicella vaccine link. It is a very interesting study that I 'm excited to learn more about. I look forward to reading more this weekend when I have more free time. I also appreciate your civil response.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI understand that my initial post was inflammatory and I regret it. But let me point out that I specifically stated that I 'am not anti- vaccine. And I specifically stated that my issue is with the US vaccine schedule. I never have nor would I ever suggest that it is beneficial to not be innoculated for Hib or Polio. I never once suggested that encountering the polio virus is beneficial as Dr. Jface claims I did (he apparently has reading comprehension issues!) I did suggest that it may be unwise to innoculate humans for every conceivable pathogen. I 'm almost certain that the three of us would agree on most of the issues discussed. We (my wife is a physician if you can believe it!) have few issues with the majority of the US vaccine schedule but we think that hep B that is given to 1 day old babies for the sake of the CDC 's "brilliant" plan to eradicate heb B from the planet is not only illogical, but unethical. Why not wait until the child is 5 to 7 years old when their immune system is much more well developed? One commenter even posted the reason why the CDC recommends hep B after my post as if to suggest that I was ignorant of the fact! How arrogant is that? How will a 5 year old contract hep B? Please answer this question. Why inject a 6 month old with multiple multi strain vaccines in one day? Why not spread these inoculations over greater time periods? (yes I understand that some inoculations require co strains, I 'm not that ill informed Dr. Jface!) I 've been attacked on this board for daring to suggest that the US schedule is flawless. One commenter called me a conspiricy theorist! What, for daring to question the flawless US schedule? The existence of the Denmark schedule is in fact evidence that many scientists on this planet do not believe that the US schedule is flawless. The chicken pox vaccine is yet another example of a questionable vaccine.
Again I thank you for your civil response. I understand your concerns with my posts and I duly respect your criticism. Best of health to you.
Econnell,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPlease see: Pediatrics. 2001 Nov; 108(5):1123-8.Childhood hepatitis B virus infections in the United States before hepatitis B immunization. Not counting perinatal infections, ~16,000 US born kids (aged 0-9 years) were infected with hep B each year. This is not a surprise if you research the virus. The vaccine is given to newborns because this saves a lot of lives.
Also different geographical places/populations have different risks and thus different vaccine schedules. You should expect different countries to have different schedules.
Combination vaccines are a good idea because they are safe and effective and pathogens don't wait until a child is older.
Cheers,W&N
1) I never said that you specifically claimed encountering polio is beneficial. What you did say is "When will American MD's come to there senses and realize the inherent value of encountering a real world pathogen and mounting a fever?" My response was a hypothetical question about the value of encountering polio. I could insert a wide range of dangerous infections there instead if you wanted me to do so. And while fevers can be beneficial, they can also be dangerous. The article you cited about fevers and the immune response had nothing to do with vaccination or even immune responses to pathogens (we will agree that fever is beneficial during an immune response though!) I think your question is more directed at what provides better immune memory vaccination or direct encounter. That question gets into all sorts of antigen processing and presentation issues that are too complicated to discuss on this board. Having done my PhD in this field I can tell you that it is an incredibly robust area of research being done by lots of folks that are not getting any pharmaceutical kickbacks or conforming to the CDC/NIH desires. It is worth pointing out that immunity to the smallpox vaccine seems to last a very long time.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this2) That's fine to questions how many vaccines at one time. I'm not being critical of that. In fact I think that kind of questioning is a good thing. Questions keep us scientists thinking. However, you keep citing Denmark as the benchmark for that but Germany and England have similar schedules to the US.
3) I really appreciate your side of the argument.
Your arguments are valid. The omission of explaining what the immune status of the recipients represents is unforgivable. When you can explain the gamut of immunity, then your studies will be more relevant.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJoel Thurm MD
Are we really still discussing the safety of vaccines? After all the scientific evidence presented to debunk each and every anti-vax argument? What a sad state of affairs.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt is a sad time in America when physicians cannot admit that the barrage of innoculations given to children can cause neuro-inflammation which can lead to autism and other developmental disorders. This is not simple speculation or paranoid ideation, but has been examined in multiple legal cases where neuro-inflammation was found to be directly related to MMR vaccination. The truth is out and doctors are scared because now the will be subject to litigation and worse for doing harm. Big pharma wants to suppress this truth from coming out and will exercise its financial muscle to do so. Buyer beware. The 'good' guys are not on your side...
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Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHey Mickey, well done. I doubt anyone heard a word you said though (evidence A: the entry after yours).
I would also suggest that chickenpox leaves scars. I had a particularly vicious case in primary school; 20 years later, I still have several large scars on my face- there's nothing I can do about them now.
I agree as well with shingles coming back the virus coming back when you're particularly stressed. Maybe the current 'epidemic' of shingles in 20-30 year olds is because we had the disease? (the vaccine wasn't introduced until the mid-1990s, too late for us young'uns.) The virus is laying dormant in our bodies until we hit the most stress in our lives: entering the job market during the worst economic crisis in decades, just when we finish school, groaning under the biggest college loans in history, with no way to move forward b/c living expenses and houses have become so expensive that we have to go into hundreds of thousands of more debt. Any wonder.
It seems to be that people are forgetting the most important thing: vaccines are NOT about your child. Vaccines are about the community. If you don't vaccinate, assuming your child won't get X, you're also affecting the elderly, the adults whose boosters have run out, the infants too young to be vaccinated, the immunocompromised, or the people whose vaccine didn't take for whatever reason. To not vaccinate means not only making a choice for your child, but also making that choice for many other people. I live for the day when vaccinations are compulsory, like school.
ps- I have also drunk the cool-aid (I'm an infectious disease epidemiologist).
pps- 2 BILLION people in the world are infected with HepB. Why is your child so special? Why not vaccinate? The point is to vaccinate BEFORE exposure.
Yet again the scientific community misses the point. They think that they can attack the causes of uncertainty about vaccines in a logical manner and that reason will win the day.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThere are two flaws with this assumption. First that parents accord as much authority to the medical establishment as that community thinks it should when they do not. It only takes one story about a child showing signs of a degenerative disease two weeks after receiving the MMR and all reason is abandoned.
It seems to me the scientific community would be well advised to attack these concerns by finding out what causes autism rather than yelling at parents about 1000s of studies showing no linkage. Parents accord no authority to such studies. Part of the reason is that most of these studies are done for big pharma which has no interest in the release of studies showing that there are serious negative side-affects of vaccines. Indeed, the treatment of Dr. Wakefield is simply a proof to anyone who is looking of the power of big pharma.
This problem will not go away until the scientific community finds the true causes of the diseases attributed as side-effects of of the multitude of vaccines pushed on parents. It would help if the scientific community would treat the other sides' concerns as hypotheses to be explored and proven or dis-proven by disinterested studies, supervised not by big pharma but by the counter-advocates and governments. Instead, they are treated as the ill-informed opinions of irrational people standing in the way of the juggernaut of public health.
Why regurgitate the party line? Thank God parents are listening to other parent's real-life experiences with vaccinations! I tell every expectant and new mother about my son's experience. My son received the MMR and two other vaccines at the same visit when he was 14 months old. He looked panicky and distressed for several days then sleep almost constantly for a few more days. After that he had stopped talking completely, and was noticeably less aware and sat around staring quite a bit. I had no idea that there was any controversy about vaccines. My son did resume talking nine months later and I later worked very hard to get him to respond to his name and such basics as saying hello when someone greeted him. I did mention all this to my doctor who said it was impossible for the vaccinations to cause any damage. I'm sure my son's side-effects were never reported to any central agency. My son also has elevated levels of lead, mercury, and lesser elevated levels of other heavy metals. It seems plausible that people can have different capacities for removing toxins from the body. It seems plausible that the early bombardment of vaccinations could cause some changes in the body or brain of a child. Why isn't the medical community concerned about the anectodal evidence presented by mothers? When I read Jenny McCarthy's book about how to provide help for your damaged child, I was struck by the many personal acounts that mirrored my son's experience and shouting in my head "yes! that's exactly what happened to my son!" Please stop the media campaign and do more research! No child should receive five vaccinations in one visit. Why do the Measles, Mumps, Rubella vaccines have to be together in one shot? Why not look at possible changes in spacing and the ages they are given. Why not??????
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thissageadvice, I 'am so sorry that you have gone through so much with your son. I hear you when you say that no one seems to listen, including your Dr. and the CDC. Lyme is another disease where the CDC is deaf. The vaccine medical issue is a long way from being resolved. I believe that the U.S schedule has much to be improved upon, but I also think that vaccines have prevented much suffering.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThere are reasons Measles, Mumps and Rubella are lumped together in one vaccine. It has to do with initial immune response to the injection. I completely agree, however, that vaccines should be given in a much more spread out schedule and at later stages of immune developement.
For me it has been a steep learning curve. In my opinion our medical system is not very good in regards to chronic disease. The march 2010 issue of SA has an article about the the unknown DNA found in the human gut. We are just beginning to understand the symbiotic role of bacteria in digestion and the good health results from their presence. I 'm glad to hear your voice on this thread as there are many "scientists" who claim that there are no issues with vaccines. Best of health to you and your child.
Best of health to you and your child.
My sister-in-law works is a PHD working as an epidemioligist. It's her job to analyse data for what the government is paying for to see if they can save money or target it better.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhile sometimes we need to change vaccination types or schedules when people like her work out there is something better, some of the commenters here are saying there is a multi-nationality conspiracy going on about vaccinations - that would be nearly as hard to achieve as faking the moon landings !
A good place to head to for vaccine information is sciencebasedmedicine.org
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisyes..me either found similar difficulties to be contributed in science and health field..Houston we have sent the cqd since 7 years ago and nobody listen..or do they already prepare the bioterrorist vaccine for prevent the war as the failure of human kindness?..
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAs much as I think the anti-vaccination hype is overblown, this SciAM article is very flawed, and is NOT a good counterargument in the slightest.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this1) Yes, of course kids that are not vaccinated against whooping cough will have a much higher chance of getting whooping cough than vaccinated kids. That's because vaccines work, which is not at all being argued by the anti-vaccination crowd. What's being argued are the side effects of vaccinations.
2) There are serious deficiencies in the data-collection process of the vaccination safety surveys. The VAERS program requires doctors to believe a side effect is vaccine related, and then go to the effort of coding it and reporting it to the federal government.
When a good friend of mine gave vaccines to her infant, they took him home and he went into seizures, which eventually became life-threatening. It changed his personality after that, and he was eventually diagnosed with autism. They're completely convinced that the vaccine gave their kid autism, and I don't really blame them, but it is only one data point.
The real sticking point here, though, is when they reported to their pediatrician the extreme adverse effect of the vaccine, he said the seizures couldn't possibly be related to the vaccine, and so did not report it to anyone.
This introduces a bias in the data collection methods for vaccine safety - if doctors firmly believe that vaccines are safe, then they will not believe that adverse effects are due to the vaccines, and therefore they will not report them to VAERS. Note that this is in violation of the VAERS reporting policy, which states you must report all adverse effects, *even if you are not sure the adverse effects are due to the vaccines*.
A disappointing step backwards, recommending a 'better communication' strategy that has proven to be of only limited value. As the authors note, Wakefield has been widely debunked. Overwhelming evidence widely communicated refutes the autism link. Pediatricians have been communicating patiently with parents for years, so unsuccessfully in some cases that they are kicking families out of the their practices. Vaccine fear is an intrinsic reflection of the subjective nature of risk perception, and in some cases impervious to information. Raising community wide risk, this behavior must be dealt with now by government. Please see my blog on this at Sci Am. http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2011/07/18/the-lesson-of-the-fear-of-vaccines/
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSo since we don't know for sure what causes autism, that means that we can't say that vaccines don't cause it?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBy this logic, I can claim that cell phones cause cancer because we don't know for sure what causes cancer.
By this logic, breakfast cereal and going swimming after you eat cause autism too, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT CAUSES IT.
Post hoc ergo prompter hoc. Learn it, love it, live it.
Those who do not want to be vaccinated have the freedom to refuse. However, when you decide for your children you become responsible, and it is a great responsibility. If you choose not to vaccinate your own children, and they developed serious, non-curable (preventable) diseases such as polio, measles, meningitis (thank god we do do not have small pox anymore, thanks to eradication by vaccination), rabies, to name a few, how would you feel? As someone said in this column, see what happens in countries where the level of vaccination is very low. I do entirely agree that you have the right and obligation, as a parent, to be informed. However, choose very carefully the quality and veracity of the information you access. Anybody can post anything in the internet, therefore, the source is important. Who are you going to trust? People who spend a lifetime doing research? or conspiracy theorists, fear mongering people who sometimes send dead threats because the researcher results do not match the desired expectation?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA little knowledge is a bad thing and there is no worse people than those who do not know that they do not know.Concerning medical matters the facts and the truth do not come easily. It takes years of intense, dedicated and painstaking research, and constant verification and validation by other researchers. It is not easy and it is not just a matter or reading a couple of papers in the internet.
Those who do not want to be vaccinated have the freedom to refuse. However, when you decide for your children you become responsible, and it is a great responsibility. If you choose not to vaccinate your own children, and they developed serious, non-curable (preventable) diseases such as polio, measles, meningitis (thank god we do do not have small pox anymore, thanks to eradication by vaccination), rabies, to name a few, how would you feel? As someone said in this column, see what happens in countries where the level of vaccination is very low. I do entirely agree that you have the right and obligation, as a parent, to be informed. However, choose very carefully the quality and veracity of the information you access. Anybody can post anything in the internet, therefore, the source is important. Who are you going to trust? People who spend a lifetime doing research? or conspiracy theorists, fear mongering people who sometimes send dead threats because the researcher results do not match the desired expectation?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA little knowledge is a bad thing and there is no worse people than those who do not know that they do not know.Concerning medical matters the facts and the truth do not come easily. It takes years of intense, dedicated and painstaking research, and constant verification and validation by other researchers. It is not easy and it is not just a matter or reading a couple of papers in the internet.
Actually, small pox is showing up in some 3rd world countries so watch out for a comeback.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSomeone mentioned about asthma and allergies linking to vaccination and again, those claims are based on nothing but hearsay. There are actually some study showing that allergy and other overactive autoimmune diseases may be a result of us living with too much hygiene and not having enough parasites in our intestines to counteract our immune system's allergic responses. Some researchers are beginning to experimenting with deliberately infecting test allergy subjects with benign parasites to lessen the allergic responses. Whatever the cause of increase in allergy, it has everything to do with people living cleaner lives and nothing to do with vaccination.
In "Straight Talk about Vaccination" Daley and Glanz talk about the unfounded fear of vaccines. As a scientist and long time believer in science practices, I agree with them. Yet it surprises me how they treat all diseases as equal, applying a blanket reasoning on all vaccines, ignoring the sometimes worse complications when contracting the disease as an adult if the vaccine wears off.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAccording to Centers for Disease Control mumps vaccine wears off in 5 to 21 percent of people who get the two doses of the MMR shot in childhood. The disease is mild when contracted in childhood with virtually no complications. It is, however, dangerous to adult males with 30% risk of the testes becoming infected, with half of these infections resulting in testicular atrophy, and in rare cases sterility. Female adult complications include spontaneous abortion 27%, inflammation of ovaries 5% (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumps citing 32 scholarly sources).
Exposure to mumps in childhood gives most people immunity for life. Why would people fear a mild childhood disease and risk dangerous complications later in life? To make matters worse, the MMR vaccine is bundled together, leaving no option to the parent of excluding just the mumps vaccine.
Not all diseases are equal, nor are the vaccines. We should outweigh the benefits and shortcomings of vaccination in each case. It seems that mumps vaccine just won't cut it.
Respectfully,
Cristian Francu
Computer Scientist
I was generally accepting of the material presented in "Straight Talk about Vaccination" until I discovered that Andrew Wakefield lost his license to practice medicine for publishing his paper on vaccine and autism.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNow I understand that this is just one more attempt at propaganda, for the medical industry to control the debate on wellness. He is just one more victim in a long line of physicians and natural healers who have been blacklisted, persecuted, and put out of business for their willingness to reveal healing methods that were "not invented here." For starters, consider Max Gerson, MD, who was healing cancer back in the 1940s until the medical industry discovered him and shut him down. Or Johanna Budwig, PhD, who found the beneficial effects of flax oil combined with milk protein. Or Rene Caisse, whose Ojibwa formula healed thousands of cancer sufferers. Or Harry Hoxsey and his herbal formula. They and many others have brought forward potential cures, but instead of giving them fair analysis, each was discredited without any attempt at fairness.
Specifically on vaccinations, animal veterinarians have known for years that giving too many immunizations at the same time can cause harm to the animal. Why do animals get better care than humans?
I challenge each reader to study each of these examples and decide whether my claims have any merit.
There is little wonder why this generation of parents is ignoring medical advice regarding vaccination. This is the generation that has grown up viewing reversal of HUGE public health experiments that were founded on poor or incomplete science and touted as "Truth" by so-called experts.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisEggs are unhealthful...but now aren't. NSIADS are great medicine...unless you have a heart attack. Cell phones don't cause brain cancer...do cause brain cancer...don't cause brain cancer...do cause brain cancer...? Hot flashes? Take some estrogen. Margarine! What a wonderful replacement for that unhealthful butter...except for the cardiovascular disease problem. Let's go and have a PSA test. Or, a little more radiation from my annual mammogram. Maybe I'll pick up a zoonotic infection while there.
How much better does this sound: Vaccines won't harm your children. We're sorry about the mercury that was used to be employed to preserve them. But they are good now. We promise.
Through these and other reversals, we have lost the public's trust. Call me anti-intellectual if you like; perhaps you could take away my PhD?
There is little wonder why this generation of parents is ignoring medical advice regarding vaccination. This is the generation that has grown up viewing reversal of HUGE public health experiments that were founded on poor or incomplete science and touted as "Truth" by so-called experts.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisEggs are unhealthful...but now aren't. NSIADS are great medicine...unless you have a heart attack. Cell phones don't cause brain cancer...do cause brain cancer...don't cause brain cancer...do cause brain cancer...? Hot flashes? Take some estrogen. Margarine! What a wonderful replacement for that unhealthful butter...except for the cardiovascular disease problem. Let's go and have a PSA test. Or, a little more radiation from my annual mammogram. Maybe I'll pick up a zoonotic infection while there.
How much better does this sound: Vaccines won't harm your children. We're sorry about the mercury that was used to be employed to preserve them. But they are good now. We promise.
Through these and other reversals, we have lost the public's trust. Call me anti-intellectual if you like; perhaps you could take away my PhD?
Their government administrations are lobbied by the same pharmaceutical companies as ours and the acceptance of it is no different.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAntibiotics are ineffective against viruses.. Here we go with that anti-intellectual stuff again.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFrom years of my own research I believe the main problem with attacks on "anti-vaccine" people is the misunderstanding that they believe Vaccines are themselves responsible for Autism, Aspergers and other neurological disorders. The problem is not the Vaccines, the problem is the cheap preservatives used to keep the drugs on shelves longer.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisRecent studies show a direct link between exposure to mercury and neurological disorders, yet pharmaceutical companies ignore such studies and keep using thimerosal in most of their products (48%+ mercury).
Look at the statistics, I am based in Australia and here 15 years ago we had 3 vaccines on the "recommended vaccines list" for infants, today there are over a dozen with some being a 3 course vaccines. 15 years ago we had autism occurring in less than one in 360 kids, today it's up to one in 83.
In addition to my previous comment, anyone who thinks pharmaceutical companies would never harm people for sake of money you may want to Google "Bayer Factor 8" for a reality check.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLater released documents proved that after Bayer was aware of the problem they simply shipped the infected haemophiliac drug to Africa and other countries so as not to lose profits.
This is a BS 'article' if that's what one would call it! This, in all the words used, says nothing pertinent or valid for the process of vaccinations! And then you try to sneak in your two-sense with one sentence, "that vaccines have a high degree of safety," in hopes that it solves the fact vaccines are not dangerous!!!! Crap....
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf all the doctor is worrying about is how much info he can gather or spew in 20 minutes because there is another one in the waiting room...then schedule the appoints in an alloted time manner to do the most effective for the patient, hello....!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThey are not really concerned about the patient, rather how much $$$ they are collecting...!
I READ AN ABSTRACT OF A STUDY THAT I HAVE MENTIONED OVER THE LAST 3 OR 4 YEARS BUT MAIN STREAM HAS NOT MENTIONED THIS AS FAR AS I KNOW. THE STUDY SAID: THAT IF A CHILD HAS A MITOCHONRIA DISORDER AND GETS A VACCINATION HE HAS A CHANCE IN THE TEENS % OF GETTING AUTISM. IF THE SAME CONDITION EXISTS AND THE CHILD HAS A FEVER, THEN THE CHANCE OF AUTISM GOES UP DRAMATICALLY, LIKE I THINK THIS WAS IN THE HIGH TWENTY'S OR LOW THIRTY'S %.
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