The specific link between disgust sensitivity and intuitive attitudes toward gays, however, isn’t entirely understood at present. That said, Inbar and his colleagues offer a perfectly reasonable evolutionary interpretation:
Individuals belonging to unfamiliar groups, especially those who engaged in unusual practices regarding food, cleanliness and sex, posed a higher risk of carrying novel (and therefore particularly dangerous) infectious agents. Perceiving such individuals would thus activate the behavioral immune system and cause avoidance behavior and the accompanying emotion of disgust…. This hypervigilance may be especially acute in those individuals who are especially sensitive to disgust, the emotion that drives the behavioral avoidance system. Because gay people almost by definition engage in “unusual” sexual behavior, one would expect more negative reactions to this outgroup on the part of those who are particularly disgust sensitive.
It may not be entirely apparent from reading these findings, but all of this is actually very good news for gay people. Studies have shown that people can be habituated to stimuli that trigger disgust over time (for example, University of Pennsylvania psychologist Paul Rozin followed first-year medical students enrolled in a gross anatomy course and found that disgust levels toward dead bodies waned significantly over the course of the semester). The key to gay people feeling comfortable expressing their affection for one another in public places, therefore, is simply to engage in such behavior more routinely.
So, hold your partner’s hand! Kiss him (or her)! We’ve got to put our love in people’s faces, not confine it to “the privacy of our own bedrooms.” That tradition of secrecy is precisely the problem. As long as we remain out of sight, we remain foreign—and thus likely to trigger disgust in the minds of those prone to hypervigilance.
(Please note, if there’s even a modest spike in the number of gay couples French–kissing in public over the next few days, you can hold me personally accountable for that. I did it intentionally.)
In this column presented by Scientific American Mind magazine, research psychologist Jesse Bering of Queen's University Belfast ponders some of the more obscure aspects of everyday human behavior. Ever wonder why yawning is contagious, why we point with our index fingers instead of our thumbs or whether being breastfed as an infant influences your sexual preferences as an adult? Get a closer look at the latest data as “Bering in Mind” tackles these and other quirky questions about human nature. Sign up for the RSS feed or friend Dr. Bering on Facebook and never miss an installment again.
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111 Comments
Add Commentwhoa! the author has a particular tacky writing style, did not expect that from sciam, not good.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thiswhoa! the author has a particular tacky writing style, did not expect that from sciam, not good.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisi think 'pushing their agendas down everyone's throats' actually refers to demanding equal rights as american citizens.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@MJonathan, Bering's got a style alright, and either you like it or you don't. personally i like it a lot!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishonestly, i'm getting a little tired of mr. bering's articles. with all due respect, articles about the shape of the human phallus, his quarrels with other web sites, and why homosexuality makes most people a little uneasy (among other such frivolous topics), are generally beyond the interest of the average reader. it seems as though this has become mr. bering's personal nook. we know you're gay, jesse, and the vast majority of us don't care. so why not try writing articles that don't remind us of it every time we read them.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@OneEye: "Perhaps, instead, we should force homosexuals to watch heterosexual intimacy. "
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisUm, that's pretty much what we're already doing.
"OneEye: 'Perhaps, instead, we should force homosexuals to watch heterosexual intimacy. '
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisUm, that's pretty much what we're already doing. "
Horseradish. Bering is here suggesting public homosexual intimacy as a form of social engineering and psychological "cure" for those poor, benighted yokels who are disgusted by feces, rotting meat, bodily secretions, blood, gore, and homosexuality. He wants to "fix" them by getting in their faces with something he knows they don't want to see.
Homosexuals, on the other hand, are by and large NOT disgusted by heterosexuals holding hands and kissing (hmmm... wonder why not?), so are not being obliged to observe what they can't stand to watch.
Mr. Bering is here proposing a program of social engineering which would make a Marxist's eyebrows rise.
Just for the record, I think that we all could use a little more discretion and propriety in public displays of affection. Here or in Hungary, we are MUCH too permissive or touchy-feeliness.
Um, actually I don't think ANYBODY should be French-kissing in public.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishotblack is another one of those fellows who see sexual freedom as a basic American right.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisRight on, man! Groove with the power to the people thing!
What a load of tripe.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe author makes at least 2 obvious flaws in his analysis. First, the (apparent) fact that people tend to assign more intentionality to behavior they find morally wrong does *not* imply that when someone assigns more intentionality to behavior, it must mean they find that behavior morally wrong. In fact, in this case, he states clearly that the participants did not report thinking the behavior was morally wrong. The cited research doesn't seem to deal with deceptive responses on moral questions.
Secondly, the author implicitly equates feelings of disgust with moral judgments, does not cite any study establishes this. I can feel disgusted by a lot of things for which I do not cast moral judgment (maggots in spoiled meat, for instance). I wouldn't be surprised to find a relationship between the two in people over some things, including homosexuality, but painting everyone who has a feeling of disgust when seeing homosexual behavior as casting moral judgment-- or even worse, those who tend to feel more disgusted *in general* (not specifically against homosexuals) as subconscious moralists is unjustified.
I find the entire idea that someone can feel disgusted by a behavior they are witnessing and not know that they are disgusted is self-contradictory. Disgust, in common parlance, requires a conscious awareness of one's feelings... otherwise they couldn't tell you they're disgusted. Now, could someone have unconscious auto-immune reactions in response to stimuli without realizing it (like a lie-detector might find)? Sure, but that's not what the author seems to be claiming; or at least he's jumping from one to the other without basis.
I personally don't care if gay couples exhibit PDAs within the same limits of PDAs as straight couples, whether or not I might have a greater aversion to seeing one than the other (and I'm sure I do). Beyond such common limits of propriety though, the author runs the risk of creating just the sort of backlash against the gay community as seeing gays in butt-less pants marching in parades has created. For the most part, I don't want to see sloppy public face-sucking amongst gay or straight couples, even if it would temper any feelings of disgust over it.
What qualifies nn7393 to represent the "average reader" or the "vast majority of us"?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI cannot be the only one aware of the irony of gay persons attempting to suppress the gag-reflex of heterosexuals.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNor did I miss the irony of a person educated in the field of evolution deciding that human beings evolved incorrect behavior and should have their behavior remolded by artifical means?
And last but not least the irony of a gay advocate equating homosexual kissing to rotting meat, feces, gore, etc.
After we have been properly trained to accept homosexual kissing, are when then to be rubbed with feces, forced to watch autopsies, etc. until we are finally left erased of any of our natural aversions?
Eee gag.
I have to say that I'm "gay friendly" but don't want to watch two men kissing AND it's not that I'm morally opposed to it in the least; I simply don't want to watch it but I also am not trying to stop them from doing it so long as I have the choice to not watch.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI mean back in the 80's we told people that instead of enacting laws about music they didn't like, they could simply.....choose not to listen. Doesn't that apply here?
Couldn't we just learn to respect freedom rather than speak of so-called "tolerance"? Forcing anyone to do anything only erodes that freedom.
As the author already said in a previous article, "Bering in Mind" is a column based on research that *HE* finds interesting -- not to be confused with the dispassionate news articles found on the rest of sciam.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNo one's forcing you to read his stuff. If you don't like it then go elsewhere. Quit being a little vagina.
As the author already said in a previous article, "Bering in Mind" is a column based on research that *HE* finds interesting -- not to be confused with the dispassionate news articles found on the rest of sciam.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNo one's forcing you to read his stuff. If you don't like it then go elsewhere. Quit being a petulant bottom.
"Homosexuals, on the other hand, are by and large NOT disgusted by heterosexuals holding hands and kissing (hmmm... wonder why not?), so are not being obliged to observe what they can't stand to watch."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSays who??? I for one am. Not only because I don't enjoy the same level of freedom, but because it's not anything I like to observe. And most of the time I can't avoid it. So horseradish your own self!
@HaroldF45 "homosexuality is unnatural, a moral deviance, a monstrosity!"
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHow could someone reading SCIAM know absolutely nothing about human biology? I hope to God none of your children happen to end up gay. They'll likely hate themselves as much as you'll hate them. Sad.
i may have been harsh and presumptuous in my previous comment (as was pointed out). to be fair, i usually enjoy the "bering in mind" articles. it's just that the past few have seemingly become the tabloid fodder of sciam.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisi don't mind homosexuals, and having seen PDAs between homosexual couples, i can honestly say it's not something i'm eager to see, but it's not something i'd freak out about. so, mr bering, i encourage you to be unafraid to show appropriate affection for your partner. i mean, nobody wants to see two people, gay or straight, trying to engulf one another's faces. but holding hands or some kissing isn't a big deal. that's a basic human right, i would think.
Black men could be lynched for looking at a white woman "the wrong way". I had never realized that the wedding announcements in the newspaper had never posted a mixed race couple until one day, my eyes kept returning to a picture of a mixed race couple's wedding announcement. I was "shocked" only to realize that I had never noticed (their absence) before. My father's reaction was one of total disgust. Many years later he had at least gotten over his disgust, in public. The "rules" can and should be changed. Bering is 100% right about gays not wanting to make others uncomfortable, yet if gays are ever going to be able to have the same freedom to touch and kiss in public... someone will have to get over their "discomfort". Are there same sex couples' wedding announcements in your local paper? About forcing gays to witness straight people's expressions of romance? As long as straight people keeping making gay children (as they have for thousands of years) gay children will witness those beautiful expressions of love between their parents, and want to be able to do the same with their loved ones... even in public. But like little kids watching adults kiss and saying "eeuuw, how gross... he put his tongue in her mouth"... there are a LOT of people who still haven't quite grown up. Some are none the less DEADLY in their homophobia.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWow, the breeders really don't like being called bigots, do they? How boringly typical: "I'm pretty open-minded myself, but queers kissing in public is icky. Not that I'm intolerant, but it's an abomination." My kingdom for an inventive hypocrite.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAh, but how lovely to be living in the 21st century. Those of us who've had the pleasure of being oppressed by the antigay crowd now have the delight of watching their children turn them progressively into a minority of prattering fools fighting yesterday's battles, fretting over things they don't understand while the rest of us roll our eyes. Six states down, forty-four to go! May the crazies all live long enough to truly enjoy it!
@HaroldF45: "Simply because I am able to walk on my hands (a mere exemple [sic]) does not mean this is normal!"
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOh dear, apparently the "Creator" abhors acrobats as well. Can't wait until one of your kids cartwheels out of the closet.
I completely agree with the idea that gay people should hold hands more in public. Gay or straight, I think our society can greatly benefit from more expressions of love. We are so inundated with negative images and ideas all the time (just turn on the 5'o'clock news, or read the previous comments to this blog post!) Wars, genocide, plane crashes and shootings are all around us this year...we need to see more love in our everyday lives.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am lucky enough to come from a community that supports all members of the LGBT community, and the majority of my friends place themselves somewhere between the extremes of the Kinsey scale (or whichever sexuality spectrum you prefer). It is not unusual to see opposite or same sex couples holding hands, and the children that grow up in this community are not confused or perverted.
What I cannot understand is why, in a world currently ravaged by hate, do people see love as a bigger threat than the hate in Burma, Darfur, Iran, Pakistan, North Korea, etc? Those are the places that are perverting the World's children. Those are the places who threaten the Christian ideal of love thy neighbor and goodwill towards men. Why not take your anger and your fear and use it to fuel outrage at the situations that are a REAL threat? Let LGBT people hold hands, kiss, and build strong, loving families, your communities will be better for it.
Is it possible to intellectually respect the rights of homosexuals, but actually have some kind of biological/genetic aversion to witnessing it?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI don't mind seeing women kiss, but witnessing men kissing makes me uncomfortable. I have zero problems with homosexuality, or gay marriage, and have some very good gay friends. I was raised in a pretty open household, so it isn't as if I was biased by my upbringing, although the societal bias was always present, of course...
So where does my aversion come from? It is easy to blame it on some kind of hidden bigatry or social issue... but I'm wondering (since this is a sci article) if anyone has found a biological reason that could explain it as well. I'm wondering if there is an explanation similar to what may make people so immediately biased against overweight people... while there is some social context, there is also some pre-programmed response in the species...?
And I would add, that even if such a biological programming existed, isn't the point of being an intelligent species that we can, upon reflection, attempt to rise above our animal program?
Personally, it is not my job to edit myself for your twisted, sick sensibilities of what your children should or should not see. If you don't want your children viewing the real world, keep them locked in your home. I'm not going to hide, I'm not going to self-edit just to appease you or anyone else. If you can't handle my partner and I holding hands or <GASP!> the occasional quick kiss, then YOU go hide in the closet.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWe're not going away, we're not going to hide, those days are over, get used to it.
I agree with Mr. Bering's points, but I feel the need to point something out:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHe chose to open the article with a vignette where he "unfortunately" witnessed a "particularly corpulent" woman making out with a man "half her size." Maybe we could work on reducing heterosexism without resorting to sizism while we're at it, Mr. Bering?
@tharriss: of course.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt is the triumph of intelligence over ignorance
Intolerance=honesty-(wisdom+compassion)
This is not meant to be flippant.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI grew up in the city and never thought much about the connection between cows and the gallons of milk that I drank habitually. When we moved to the country we met some of our neighbours who are dairy farmers and I asked if I might help them out with milkings on weekend mornings, to see what this is like. Intrepid people that they are, they agreed.
Over the course of months, then years of wiping udders, moving cows poop and dirty straw onto a conveyor belt and occasionally carrying newborns inside, I eventually became accustomed to being plastered with excrement and smelling like a barn. On the other hand, I have no idea whether my opinions on social issues became more liberal.
However, I did find myself quite unable to drink milk from a glass for a long time, even after I stopped working on that dairy farm.
BillBell... so expericence colors perception, that sounds reasonable.... but perception is also altered by biological programming...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI was wondering if anyone had done any studies on the biological programming side, as opposed to the social/environmental programming side of people's reactions to this issue...
*experience*
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisyou know i really like this article and the homophobic comments are unfortunate, but some people have different views. as much as (mainly heterosexual) people think it's now cool and easy to be gay, it isn't. and sometimes it's still really hard to be out or be out "all the time". showing public affection is difficult for many of us, so kudos to all those who do it anyway!!! thank you!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@dlomane it's really confusing for a homosexual kid growing not to have peers or people to look up to. it's really lonely. and being surrounded by heterosexuals will not make your kid less confused about their own sexuality, regardless of orientation.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI find the lack of tolerance in these comments to be atrocious.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThink of the children because they're impressionable? That's ignorance. It's better for your children to accept homosexual behavior to create a better and more tolerant future. Like the guy said before, interracial couples used to be just as taboo as homosexual couples. Why should we prevent them from becoming equally accepted?
Homosexuality is NOT an abomination as others have stated. If you were any sort of educated, you'd know that homosexuality is actually a very universal thing, not only in human existence but everywhere in nature itself. It only became taboo when major religions came to power. Now people are brainwashed into hating it out of fear of going to Hell.
The absolute ignorance of these comments is astounding, and I sincerely hope you aren't procreating or in any kind of power to teach our young or anyone else at that.
Take a look at the video behind the link below. It shows gay and lesbian men and women kissing openly in front of the Eiffel tower in Paris in a demonstration aimed at addressing the same ideas dealt with in the article. Does it make you uncomfortable? Disgusted?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFFqeeNwOhI
Now watch the two guys in the second video, linked below, eating lobster. Likewise uncomfortable?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcK2zZQPfLY
Both are "abominations" according to the Kosher Code of Leviticus, but most modern day Christians are fine with the occasional lobster dinner. The former can get your butt kicked, even in NYC, much less Hungary, while the latter might have people asking for dinner invitations. Were this not Scientific American I would say some neo-con foibles are excusable, but when one invokes "abominations" to criticize an article on the relationship between a psychological theory and human behavior one cannot help but wonder whether they understand the term "Scientific" at all.
It makes me angry. Angry, and hungry. Fortunately there's a Red Lobster restaurant in Times Square and my boyfriend is on his way into the City. Maybe we'll make a video of a hot crustacean-infused make out session, post it on the web, and herald in the Apocalypse. "Gays Kiss With Lobster on Their Breath", tonight on the evening news. Hey, when you invoke the "science" of more than 2000 years ago anything is possible!
Abominably yours ...
I have a simple explanation for why more students thought the director intentionally did the encouraging of public Frenching with gays than with straight couples--there are straight couples already kissing all over the place (as your piece points out) so that they need no encouragement and no video would likely provide one. Not so for gays, as the students rightly assumed. The further assume the director would not be ignorant of that fact--thus his responsibility.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHow about instead of forcing people to watch, you just don't care if they watch. If more homosexuals were showing affection in public and it became a common thing to see, then people would eventually get used to it. If you perceive there is an injustice, act as if there is none. It's like Rosa Parks on the bus, you shouldn't have to be forced to the back of society to show your affection, so don't allow yourself to be. If you get beat up by some crazy homophobe, they'll go to prison and you'll be a martyr. Everyone knows the violent person is the bad guy in every instance and it'll open everyone's eyes. the same goes for any injustice.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAll he is saying is that behavior which is outside the group norm marks one as not being a member of that group.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOur ancestors worked in groups or clans and considered outsiders as a possible threat. We have not changed, our avoidance mechanisms are still intact.
Commentors are so far ridiculous, and Bering does a disservice to the issue yet again by ignoring social factors. Homosexual kissing, like polluting the environment, could be seen as more intentional perhaps because they are important actions which have been built up by the media as being transgressive of social norms; gays kissing is more intentional because it is less socially 'natural'. OneEye, you are so stupid I literally cannot breathe. Suck it.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNo-one seems to understand that when you see two people kissing, the "empathy" function kicks in and you tend to identify with at least one of the kissers in terms of imagining what they are feeling. If you are heterosexual, you identify with the man feeling the kiss of the woman, and you sense a degree of pleasure consistent with your own "desire" to kiss that particular woman. That's why "god" made Marilyn Monroe. But imagine how the same man night feel when Marilyn suddenly morphed into Harvey Fierstein? Although according to the late great Rodney Dangerfield, he might make an exception if a Harvey morphed into a Brad Pitt.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am really shocked by the comments left here. There can be a very substantive discussion about Bering's thesis, but it is clear that many here have no desire to have an intelligent conversation. Instead they only wish to attack homosexuality, and that's unfortunate.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAs for the article itself, I began reading this article because I found the topic of personal interest. As a heterosexual man, who very much supports LGBT issues, I find myself always feeling slightly uncomfortable seeing gay PDA. It's that tension between intellect and emotion that Bering has attempted to address with this article and I think the worthiness of that endeavor alone is deserving of praise.
So while I disagree with some of comparisons made in the article, we are all better served by being exposed to more gay life in general. I think that many of the comments left in this article speak to this point. People with varying degrees of intolerance against gays don't need to have homosexual PDA rubbed in their face like feces. What they do need though, is to understand that the relationships between homosexuals are really no different than for the rest of us.
In that sense homosexual PDA is not an isolated issue that people can simply be desensitized to. But instead, is part of our societies general discomfort with homosexuality. We all need to openly discuss the spectrum of tolerance that exists. And maybe the most telling example, is the fact that even those of us that support full equality for homosexuals, are not always comfortable having to personally bear witness to it.
I'm a 20 year old male from Mississippi. I moved into an apartment with three other guys. I knew one of the guys and had met another one briefly. It wasn't till i had moved in that i found out that the third roomate was homosexual. I knew this was going to be a culture shock due to the fact this isn't a common practice in southern states. For the record, I'm straight and have been in a relationship for nearly three years. My roommates and I are all Pre-med or in medical school, that is all except my roommates boyfriend (fashion design). For the last couple weeks I've tried to be open-minded and understand their lifestyle. It wasn't till a couple days ago I saw them being physical. I was playing xbox , I tried to tone out what i thought was smacking of lips with tv volume, when i did turn around they were making out on my couch. So i responded they way any normal 20 year old straight southern guy would do, i flipped out and yelled. (Needless to say we haven't talked much the last couple days) I saw this article and thought it might help me understand why i reacted the way i did, a scientific, reasonable explanation, then I read this article. This turned into a pro-gay rant that meant nothing. The author mentions Katy Perry as an example, Katy Perry is a drug addicted, ignorant fool. She also sings a song about going to Vegas, getting drunk,getting married, forgetting she got married, and blowing all her money, big deal. This author is ignorant for saying the neurological reason for people responding with disgust is because their not accustomed to it. It is furthermore irresponsible for him to say that our generation needs to be desensitzed to the point where we believe it is acceptable for two men, or woman, to express physical emotions in public. He explains the disgust mechanism with a metaphor, paralleling med school students to the digust reaction of their cadaver. Great metaphor (thats sarcasm if your reading this). You explain a lifestyle with the reaction to a dead body, thats probably offensable to gay people i'm sure. The author explained nothing. This was a poorly written pro-gay article with no scientific grounds. I do not want my future children to believe its right for two boys,or girls, to kiss because the media said it was right, like katy perry's dumb self did. So after all the wasted space this article took up, i still understand nothing. I'm not into public displays of affection with my girlfriend, and i especially don't want to see it from same sex. Way to make scientific america looked stupid
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@christoph242: If you actually get into medical school, not only will it be a miracle, given that your IQ seems to be hovering about the level of a weed, but a very sad state of affairs for the profession.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI think youre a touch wide of the mark here. Whats missing is some way of accounting for pure, unbiased shock. People just dont see men kissing in public. Not even gay men are accustomed to seeing that, in say, a crowded shopping mall or something. In the context of that study, shock=spectacle=media=yeah, sure Ill bet the director did that on purpose. Any shocking stimulus would produce the same answers for that first question. The idea that this necessarily points to unconscious disapproval is easy to falsify:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTake a group of straight men who masturbate regularly, think thats just fine, and have been screened to weed out those with any buried hang-ups about it. Tell them they are in a study of physiological responses during masturbation, for which they will have to masturbate while wired up. In perfect privacy, of course. No one will see, hear, or anythingthe only evidence would be the readout on a machine they can see themselves. The researchers are all womenat least one reasonably attractive, but not to the point of arousing suspicion. Now not only are these guys fine with the premise of the study, theyre digging it. They get hooked up [for real, to apparatus that is actually portable] and led into the private room, where Whoops! they walk in on another subject wanking away. This guy appears every bit as shocked and dismayed as the real subjects, the researcher apologizes profusely and shuts the door. Will they register shock? Yep. Revulsion? Many, yes. When asked on a questionnaire if they think it might have been contrived [in some clever way that doesnt plant the suggestion by asking it bluntly], will they suspect a set up? Some, yes. Now, does this mean they disapprove of straight men masturbating [in private]?
That leads to the other problem. The fact that we have a saying like Get a room is testament to the fact that people have moral reservations about any flavor of PDA, past a certain point, period. Seeing men kiss, since it is taboo, can be seen as merely higher on the same scale of PDA-yuck applicable to straight couples, meaning the straight couples would produce precisely the same reactions simply by amping up the level of sexuality [as you illustrated yourself].
Im as straight as straight gets, meaning Ive been surrounded by homosexual friends, colleagues, and acquaintances all of my adult life, and none of them have ever 1) interested me in sex with men, or 2) made me angry or uncomfortable because of their sexuality [with the exception of some so-called friends that treated me differently after finding out Im honestly not even curioususually a female complaint]. Ive heard graphic accounts of gay sex, watched gay porn because it was on the vcr and everyone else was, and turned the gentle rejection of advances into a science. None of this has ever phased me. But once I saw men kissing in a place I wasnt expecting to see that, and damn if that didnt give me the heebie jeebies. I just dont believe my reaction to that would belie some deeply repressed disapproval that doesnt seem to surface anywhere else, such as seeing men kiss in a gay club, where one would expect to see that.
My point is that exposure to LBGT people in general is what will change attitudesas neighbors, as colleagues, as characters on TV who are not defined by their sexuality. Repeated exposure to just one small aspecttheir sexualitywould likely backfire with people who are starting with negative attitudes.
Ha, I second that. Those were my thoughts exactly.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHaha, those were my thoughts exactly. It's not like EVERY movie out there involves heterosexual sex on some level, as do advertisements, commercials, etc...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am really surprised (and not in a good way) at the venomous responses to Mr Bering's column. It seems to me that understanding the daily pressure on people who don't happen to share the sexual drives of the majority is not a bad thing. Bering did not advocate any "reeducation" or anything else of the sort. He just pointed out that the routine displays of affection that heterosexuals take for granted are a problem for homosexuals. And the stated it in a vivid way that made it come alive for me. I confess that I am a bit uncomfortable with gay affection -- but that is not an argument for claiming that the behavior is objectionable, merely that it is out of the cultural norm.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLighten up folks.
Every doctor must be absolutely neurotic then, huh? Only a crazy person would expose themselves to the realness of life and the human body in order to cure disease and save lives... life is apparently made up of pink pillows and marshmallow fluff.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAlso, if public displays of affection by homosexual couples is "authoritarian and violating", so is every advertisement, commercial, song, conversation or action by another person that you're "forcefully" exposed to. It's not like a crowd of gay people are going to strap you down, staple your eyes open, and make you watch them have sex. The idea is that homosexual couples will kiss and hold hands as often as straight people do so that it becomes standard and less taboo. If you don't like that, I suggest you stay in your house all day so you can have complete control over what you view.
Furthermore, I'd say the defeating subliminal messages we receive every second of every day about gender, race, and class -- which we regard as completely acceptable and sometimes even embrace (!) -- are way more toxic than two dudes kissing on the street.
I'm a heterosexual male, and due to some of my friends being gay I have become accustomed to seeing two men kissing. It made me a bit uncomfortable when I was eighteen, but fortunately my father raised me to "judge not lest you be judged". Now I'm 31, and it doesn't bother me any more than if a heterosexual couple was engaged in the same behaviour. I got used to it.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI'm still disgusted by rotting meat. Becoming accustomed to one stimulus (such as "unusual" behaviour) does not mean that you're blase towards other disgust triggers. Likewise, I've changed a few nappies, so faeces don't bother me so much.
(Heck, when I was eleven, the idea of boys kissing girls was pretty yucky! I got used to -that- idea, too. :P )
The argument "There's a biological reason to feel digust, so we shouldn't fight it!" does not wash. There's a biological reason to eat as much as possible, because back on the savannah you didn't know where your next meal was coming from.
Oh wait. We're not on the savannah anymore. The world has changed, and our biological programming has not kept up with the changes.
I am sure that with enough media sympathy and hollywood/sciam backing writers like this could make having sex with animals acceptable. Honestly do we need all his personal insights and semi-science to decide if we are heter or homosexual? If it is indeed nature and not nurture then why keep trying to win acceptence? This is why sciam is simply another discover magazine. Popular trendy semi-science. I guess Nature is all we really have when it comes to good science writing. Like the article on homosexual animals and darwinism, your not going to make the world gay with BS science. Do we really care what you do in your private life with other adults of the same orientation? I dont. Just stop trying to justify it with what once was a decent science publication. If I see two men kissing in public I do get a little sick but its not because of any of the reasons explained away in this article. Be gay if your gay, but dont expect me and the other non-gay people to reconsider our sexual preference. If being gay is really nature and not a state of mind then why try to explain it away? Some people like tomatoes and others dont and there is no explanation needed. Two men kissing is rather disgusting IMO but what I find more appauling is the way sciam has become a politicaly correct publication. Isnt science interesting in it's own right? Do we need articles like this or was sciam secretly bought out by MTV?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI don't suppose he has considered the idea that disgust might be a perfectly natural and normal reaction to 'gay' behaviour, and therefore would be immoral to try to suppress?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHe apparently things his unconscious behaviors w.r.t. the same subject are natural and normal, and would be mortally offended should anyone suggest he undergo therapy to annul them...
Your imaginary friend abominates no such thing, being, of course, imaginary.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisrhwillms: It's perfectly natural and normal to desire fatty and carb-laden foods, even when they aren't good for you. Would it be "immoral" to suppress that biological programming?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBy your logic, the desire to eat more than we actually need is likely to be natural, normal, and "moral". And yet, according to Proverbs 23:2 it is better to put a knife to your throat than to be a man of appetite. Seems just a -little- inconsistent!
So let's leave the rubbish moralising to the bigots and focus on equality and the right of every person to live with dignity. Nobody should be ashamed of and made to hide the things for which his brother is praised. A healthy, loving relationship should be recognised by society, regardless of the gender of the parties involved.
Dear Rogereon and others,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI believe if you read between the lines, Mr. Bering's article supports your statements. The science he is reporting explains how "they" and all of us are, by nature, "DISGUSTING DOUBLE STANDARD HYPOCRITES!" We may come to espouse a socially acceptable point of view, but until we experience it enough to overcome our natural aversion to new and little understood things, we are still subconsciously disgusted by it. Unfortunately that means that many of us here who, 50 years ago, would have said that mixed race couples are ok, would have had some aversion to seeing a white and black couple on a date, much less french-kissing. Pretty acceptable behavior these days.
And while Mr. Bering's proposal to kiss in public might be social engineering, it is so in the same way many other groups throughout history have made themselves more visible in order to gain more acceptance. (Think black man refusing to lower his gaze when passing a white person on the street). It is not a bad thing.
It would be authoritarian if we did in fact force everyone to view it in a controlled setting such as school, but making it visible in the public arena is no more forcing it on you than you are forced to see the sky when you go out. It's simply something that is a part of our reality and gay people want to be recognized and accepted as equals among everyone else in society. Doesn't seem like too much to ask for.
Anybody that writes an article about a penis is brilliant. I am not to attracted to the homosexual scene. Affection is preliminary sex, and sex is sex whether you are full bore or pecking the cheek. Keep your affection behind closed doors.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHas Bering ever written an article that did not have a connotation of sex, phallus, penis or bashing creationist?? I'm sick of the gay political agenda being pushed at us everyday from every angle. I come to SciAm for science, not veiled political activism. Bering must go.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSo... getting used to see gay people kissing is the way.. to get used to see gay people kissing..
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisuhhh..
Im am not against gay people kissing in public... that would be welcome .. But I just think this article used too many convoluted words to say it...
I imagine if Jesse and Juan were attractive females instead of pedestrian men, they would feel differently about the situation. Certainly there's a lot of social psychology at work here, but it goes even deeper.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAesthetically lets face facts:
attractive female x 2 pda > attractive hetero pda > unattractive male pda.
Well I stopped subscribing to Sciam over ~ 5 years ago, because I struggled to find science there anymore. Hasn't changed evidently. I fell over this upon chasing up the article on women getting tenure. Best of luck to anyone kissing in public, and anyone getting a professorial chair as well.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDid anyone pick up that a matter of personal preference really has no connection with discovery and interpretation of physical facts? Or doesn't that matter anymore? Lest you wind up like string theory that can't produce a single number to validate by measurement. What sociological argument of any merit is genuinely made stronger by science anyhows?
I look at physics journals and online archives now.
Are people judged as more less acceptable because of their sexual preferences? If someone likes it like this and another likes it like that , in the privacy of their homes between consenting adults do we really care? What we dont care for is trying to make it public. If you are affectionate with your farm animals do you expect to walk down the street and rub your little finger over 'betsy' in a sexual manner and then attempt to justify everyone elses disgust with a psuedo-scientific explanation? Keep it in the bedroom and whats the problem? Or are you recruiting? No manner of semi-scientific argument is ever going to make me homosexual or ever make me not cringe at the sight of two men kissing. Why are you attempting to justify homosexuality with science when no justification is needed? Is it the right to wed? I think Gay people are the only ones who want to get married these days, its not like you get your partners health insurance unless your a stay at home [partner]. They make you take your own employers coverage these days. Hollywood has already given you thumbs up so what more do you want from the non-gay community? Its already considered 'in' to be gay. You got hollywood and political correctness already but you will not get the hetersexual community to somehow change their minds on what turns their stomach. Science making far reaching assumptions like this writer likes to do is why sciam has fallen from the ranks of serious science publications. Be who you are and dont try so hard to gain acceptence from others, unless maybe your a little insecure in your gayness?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this@C.harvey. okay harvey, obviously you have bias toward what i said, you may or may not be homosexual. Besides having a weak ass response you didn't even have a rebuttle. I re-read this article again. i understand the research. let's go back to katy perry's video. When katy perry came out with her video, did she intentionally try to increase the number of women to kiss?, or was it an unintentional reaction? Personally, i think katy sang about herself with no intention to make other girls kiss, but it did. I also understand Mr Bering's idea that people have a bias towards something their not used to; like the guys story below my original post, a guy catching another guy jack off would be disgusted. the first part of this article i completely agree with, what i didn't agree with was how he adressed his personal life problem. if he felt uncomfortable touching his dude thats his problem, he obviously needs other couples to join in and make him feel comfortable to express his own emotions. i guess my problem was saying the only way i'll no longer be disgusted with gay affection is to watch it more. saying basically flaunt gay affection in public is wrong, alot of people don't want to see it; most people dont wanna see straight people make out in public for that matter. i'm not a dumb redneck mr C.harvey, i lived in Iowa for thirteen years..P.S. Iowa is a pro-gay state that allows gay marrige, i'm not sheltered i just don't like to see it myslef which is why i was angry, the fact he said everyone needs to flaunt their relationship in public. In my opinion, everyone does need to take it to the bedroom, it should be private; relationships shouldn't be for show but happiness, and gays are obviously quite happy. But for my sake and the general population, please do get a room. The bottom line is, gay and lesbian couples are going nowhere, its a personal decison whether or not you support the lifestyle. and gay rights will continue to be a heated topic untill everyone realizes that.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisokay now harvey, do you get my point? i don't want to see two dudes kissing, more power to them in the bedroom, but just not in public. next time you want to offend somone, make sure their not smarter than you ; )
I'll try to address one of the questions in the text rather than engaging in moral consideration - sorry if that offends the sensitive.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBering offers an evolutionary viewpoint on this - while this may be valid, I have another, more subjective explanation (which doesn't really conflict with the evolutionary one): as apes, we are apt to copy, at least mentally, what we see others do. So, if I as a heterosexual male see gay men kissing, I can't help feeling a little bit of revulsion - because I wouldn't want to do this myself.
Now, a psychologist might say "Aha!!" at this point, and tell me that this is because I secretly want to and so on, but that is beside the point, I think.
Real is rational. If the majority is disturbed by homosexuals kissing each other, then homosexual kissing (public or private) is wrong.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou can't forcibly modify mankind's most basical instincts just to gratify a bunch of inproductive decadents.
Remembre, what is real is rational. This is Hegel, not some daisy philosopher.
I hate to, but I must agree with many of these comments this particular contributer seems to base almost every peice he authors around homosexuality and while I have no problem with the subject I don't feel it is necessarily that pertenant to a web-page revolving around scientific discoveries. Homosexuality is as old as man-kind and while it is a hot button political topic right now it is not so much of an innovation and beyond that I don't think the contributor has had alot of formal training in writing he goes way to overboard with the metaphors and descriptive language it comes across as very contrived almost to the point of irratating.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am a gay man and I think PDA whether gay or straight is disgusting. There is nothing more obnoxious to me than two people making out on the subway, in a restaurant, wherever. Holding hands or leaning on each other is a different story, but leave it at that. If you have to prove to the world that you are so in love that you can't keep your tongues in your mouth for more than an hour, then there might be something wrong with your relationship. This is not a gay or straight thing. It is a matter of not making others uncomfortable. Maybe gay people just have a little more respect for their fellow humans. I say gays let's keep the status quo and not make out in public!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis view is just a tad general, don't you think? I mean, the majority of people in this country would be completely disgusted and in some cases morally objected to eating practices in other countries. So who is right? I mean the majority of people in Eastern Asian countries and raised in those traditions find our consumption of dairy products, particularly cheese, disgusting. Most would also argue that it's completely unnatural and unhealthy. Similarly, most Western Societies find the consumption of dog to be both gross and morally objectionable. Some people eat bugs, some people eat yogurt (which while I eat yogurt if you think about it is kinda gross), some people eat almost nothing at all, some people eat large amounts of processed artificial foods. Some people like to suck cock, some people never have sex their entire lives, some people like to do it in the open, some people masturbate religiously. Your argument is unsound and ignorant because it disregards the heterogeneity of human experience, taste, sense of decorum, morality, etc.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBeyond that I think the LGBT community should feel more confident about showing their affection in public. I think by keeping that in the closet we just propogate the belief that homosexuality is sinful or disgusting.
Oh, and while children are very impressionable I don't think seeing two ladies hold hands is going to "turn them." Besides, what's wrong with more homos in the world?
Wow what a bunch of interesting comments - it is remarkable to me that even in such a high-brow forum as this how many people wear their glaring biases like a well-earned medal. In support of some of the criticism, however, the article was a little thin on data for my tastes but it did do a fine job of illustrating one type of cognitive bias.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am a bisexual male, who 'leans gay' and thus by most people's estimation am 'totally gay'. I have had these feelings all long as I've had memories. That said, I can tell you that ten years ago, before I started hanging around gay people and seeing more PDA on TV, I too would feel particularly uncomfortable seeing media depictions of gay affection whether in the presence of others or alone. Mind you I had been engaging it quite a bit of gay kissing myself up to this point and did not have issues with it myself (although my first 'gay kiss' did seem a bit odd) and I never saw anything morally wrong with it. Actually I quite liked it.
Given that I have had gay feelings since the age of five and that most morally righteous people would defend to the death the innocence of a five year old, my position that there is a strong biological element to homosexuality should be somewhat defensible to all but the most carnivorously righteous here. If we can accept that I'm wired this way for the sake of argument, then my experience supports the notion that this aversion to gay PDA is significantly, if not entirely, cultural. In fact, one only needs remember with clarity the atmosphere from fifteen years ago regarding gay people: to be outed was a sensational media event. Nowadays you just get a yawn unless it's some A-list celebrity no one expected. The fact that the science of supporting gay people has gone mainstream is also highly significant since scientists in general are a pretty conservative bunch. I believe that the confluence of science and media has indeed desensitized people and am glad for it.
It's easy to spout on about my condemned soul or your moral indignation but it's not as easy to understand what it's like to always be looking over your shoulder when you're with someone you like. All it takes to alert the haters in public is a little 'slip up', a hand placed too low on the shoulder, subconscious brush, a mischievous glance. Suddenly, your peace, your job, even your life is at stake. For what? Well, I know the answer, and it has to do with social control. I see reshaping the status quo as key, so maybe a little risque hand holding does us all some good, after all.
Oh dear Jesse, you do have a following of vehemently indignant neo-cons who follow you with zeal.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPersonaly I enjoy your column, thanks.
In response:
One-eye, could it be most non-heterosexuals fail to feel disgust because the reflex has been diminished from years of exposure to heterosexual conduct? Or is that too simple a line of thought for you to follow?
E-Gag, There is no such thing as "correct" or "proper" evolutionary traits, your words show your lack of understanding on evolution. A trait could have evolutionary advantages for a particular enviroment leading to selective presure, but aquired traits can also persist long after the selective presure is gone. Learn some more about evolution before you critisise those who study it please.
RFBrownPE, by your logic heterosexuality behaviour should incite disgust in anyone living in Africa, after all, those abhorrent heterosexuals are responsible for the spread of HIV... put simply, learn to think.
dlomane, perhaps children should not be misled into thinking that public affection between people of the same gender is taboo in our society.
You make a good point. We have a long way to go with gay rights. But let me point out to you the tinge of disdain in the words you chose to open your article. Is it possible you're as disgusted by straight displays as you suggest straight people are of gays doing the same thing?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this".... that this aversion to gay PDA is significantly, if not entirely, cultural. "
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis reminds me of the particular tragedy of Alan Turing. After being outed inadvertently following a police investigation into a burglary ( the likely perp was an ex-lover ) he was convicted, then sentenced under British law, and enacted with chemical castration.
He suffered much pressure from social approbation, with also probable depressive effects stemming from the 'treatment' itself. He suicided in a quite symbolic manner by a bite from a poisoned apple. He is a founder of the technology that gave us the forum we are using now.
Fortunately the risk for homosexuals is dramatically less these days, but Mr Turing died not so long ago. I am heterosexual with no gay tendencies ( that I know of .... ), but that ought not make me a witch burning medieval idiot. I think this topic is more fundamentally related to 'groupthink' and the manner in which we deal with perceptions of differences. Pack mentality if you like. Sexuality is a particular turf we all have some stake in.
Ever wondered where the Apple Computers logo came from? I do ...... :-)
The amount of ignorant, abusive, homophobic comments under this article only convinces me how far we still need to go in understanding (and hopefully curing) the psychological disorder of homophobia. I think the author is proposing a rather plausible theory for its origins.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCurious that you say that these topics aren't of much interest to the average reader...they are the top two on the list of most-popular topics. They also generate above-average comment numbers. Hmmm...curiouser and curiouser.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf this immoral hogwash really was heaven, then Hell would be both morally superior AND aesthetically more pleasing.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI have rarely seen any article where the comments so perfectly illustrate the content.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou write that an aversion reaction to gay kissing is the same as an aversion reaction to rotting meat
and they agree with you!
OneEye, Reading your comments makes me so proud that we are from a society that guarantees freedom of speech. I too am uncomfortable with PDAs, but I put up with them, knowing that heterosexuals need to do these things in order to create more gay folk. As to disgust, anyone can go too far, as you have in your comments, which remind me of feces, rotting meat, bodily secretions, blood, and gore. Keep up the good work!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe purpose of the study was to examine the responses to homosexual behavior. Since this is less common in public, it was more obvious to viscerally sensitive people when homosexuals were shown.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisErgo they are bigoted, QED.
By the way, my criticism is directed at the completely unwarranted speculation about the motives of people. What you were measuring was by no stretch of the imagination an example of bigotry.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhat does he mean by "kissing"? Does he mean a public peck on the lips or a full contact lip lock that looks like it is about to lead to sex on the bench? I am not, and never will be a proponent of the homosexual lifestyle, but I wouldn't be offended by a public smooch. However, a public kiss that looks like the prelude to an orgy is offensive regardless of the gender of the parties involved.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisActually, you miss the point. LGBT community does not want to have more rights than other people, they just want to enjoy the same rights as others. That's what equality is about. Unfortunately, such people like you want to be "more equal" (that is, to have MORE rights).
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCan a guy kiss a girl in public (in your opinion)? I bet, yes. How about a guy kissing another guy? I bet you'd say no. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.
FYI, most of homophobes are closeted homosexuals (take some psychology classes). There is nothing in nature that says homosexuality is wrong, and if your religion does not encourage such a behavior, that's fine with me, as long as you keep your values to yourself.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJesse, mate, have you been to the Middle East - say, Morocco, or even, more closer to home, parts of various Western cities which might be dubbed the likes of 'Little Arabia'?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNot only do you NOT see heterosexual couples snogging, but ostensibly heterosexual blokes clutching each others hands tightly and slobbering all over each other like dogs. Indeed, 'Boy George' himself said he found the unrestrainedly 'affectionate' and tactile social encounters of Middle Eastern men so uninhibitedly 'gay' even he was embarassed.
Similarly, in many parts of the UK, particularly Greater London, heterosexuals are far more likely to encounter opposition from the likes of the police for indulging in 'dogging', (anonymous/random sexual encounters in carparks, etc.), than homosexuals are for indulging in 'cottaging', (anonymous/random sexual encounteres in public lavatories), or 'badgering', (anonymous/random sexual encounters on public land).
Some people - of all sexual persuasions - 'll indulge in exhibitionism of any kind purely and simply because they enjoy embarassing and intimidating others.
Some people - of all sexual persuasions - are prone to becoming so entranced by the presence of their loved one they simply become oblivious to the rest of the world.
I am a paper subscriber to SciAm. I think this is a great article with a novel and terrific tone. How many dreary articles about speculation on Big Bang etc can one take? This subject is real and has everyday application to all of us, gay/str8, progressive/conservative.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI live in one of the gayest places on earth, and I too, have an intial "negative reaction" when I see 2 guys walking down the street holding hands. It is ingrained. While I am naturally homosexual, I am not sure about the source of the homophobic reactions. I think they are learned, intensely. (By repeated displays of heterosexual PDA's - which are nonstop if you stop and think about it straight people).
So I think this line of scientific inquiry is great and should get further attention.
I saw the movie Humpday yesterday, which is about 2 str8 friends thinking about doing a porn film. The ingrained homophobia is intense in all of us.
This article does not state conclusively whether homophobia is bio or learned. It does state that either way, it initiates certain behaviors. I think the studies he cites are relevant.
I wish we could discuss sex in America with an open mind. But we have been molded to be so sex-phobic, that people get nervous, twitter and giggle when they see almost any sort of adult sex on tv or in movies.
Frankly, the idea of lesbian sex grosses me out. But I wish all Lesbians the best of all sexual fulfillment. We are not all alike. Please stop thinking that I must be like you. My being me, does not deminish you being you.
First, I'll say for the record: Im all for tolerance, equality, etc etc...and have no problem with the author of this article covering issues which directly relate to himself.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThat said, who's to say the problem is in the fact that gay men kissing in public isn't as acceptable as straight couples doing so? I'd say the problem is in people of ANY gender engaging in such intimate activities where others can see them. When I'm trying to enjoy a meal out (or anything else out for that matter) the last thing I want to see is two people slobbering all over each other. Given the extent to which some people go in expressing their feelings for each other, they might aswell have sex in a shop window...
In the Judeo-Christian cultural world we are programmed to think that gay sex is an abomination, and to feel any such desire is abnormal. I'm fairly sure that's where the "disgust" reaction comes from, at least as it applies to human males (even the gay ones). as it doesn't seem to exist elsewhere in the animal world. And men have no trouble touching if it's part of a sport - but suggest that the other man likes the touch, and recoil sets in - maybe even a flash of self-disgust?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBigotry is a part of this, but rid yourself of the bigotry on an intellectual or rational level, and the "instinctive" distaste remains on that culturally ingrained level. I agree that it's silly to write such an article about this as if the writer has some scientific revelation to offer - the rocket science coming out of the woodwork here notwithstanding.
This is so homophobic. What if someone asked a similar question but about black people- would that make it right? No. People who are knee jerk discriminatory feelings have serious issues. But anyway we all know the most homophobic people are secretly gay. Get over your aversion to people touching. You probably have OCD.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou bigot.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"... it's silly to write such an article about this as if the writer has some scientific revelation to offer ..."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYes. Maybe another franchise is begging here, 'Sociological American' perhaps. Or even 'American Rocket Scientist'. The publishing thicket may be rather dense already though .... :-)
I've never understood why some want to apply a science-type metric to human behaviour. Alas such mis-application of 'science' readily fails, for a blizzard of reasons, and that then diminishes the topic/stance somewhat.
If you have a personal preference just state it and move on. Calling it scientific smacks of special pleading and gives the appearance of insecurity - by the writer. Whatever homophobia is displayed in response does not alter that.
I don't know if this comment comparing black and gay people was directed at me, but if so, the commenter mistakes an explanation of prejudice or bigotry for prejudice itself or for approval of same. In any case there is a vast historical difference in the cultural forces involved with these separate forms of ignorance and bigotry (if bigotry is even the right word to describe homophobia). Homosexuality is not a function of ethnicity for one thing. And skin color is not a determinant of physiological or psychological functions.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI am always so amazed at how many people complain about these articles. I think this is a great way to introduce people to actually thinking about why they feel the way they do...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisalso, I thought conservatism and scientific literacy were mutually exclusive.... I never imagined so much intolerance existed among the literate
I find public displays of lust (as opposed to affection like holding hands) distasteful, no matter what the combination of genders.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI get Sooooo tired of hearing about equal rights for homosexuals! Has it Ever, Ever occurred to those folks having a fit about it that homosexuals Already have the same rights as heterosexuals?? For Example: A homosexual Already has the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex as Anyone else! What they really want is an Additional right, NOT a equal right! Women finally got equal rights to vote - same as any man. But if one sex now started demanding additional voting rights, well, now that's a different story isn't it? I don't harbor ill will for homosexuals, but I think they really need to step back, regroup, take stock, and get some more accurate perspectives!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFor all I know the article may be a ruse - we are actually providing study the data as we write? :-)
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this'.... the study data ...'
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBlue Fire, I fully support the right for Heterosexuals to marry a person of the same gender.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf you are a straight man and want to "gay-marry" another straight man then I don't see any reason why you should not be allowed to. Infact, I think several countries have recently passed laws that will allow you to.
@HewsMike "I've never understood why some want to apply a science-type metric to human behaviour."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJust what do you think science is?
Here's a definition for you:
http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/science-definition.html
Theres so little thats fully understood about human behaviour, even in this day and age. Things we don't understand, we endeavour to understand. We study it, to aquire the knowledge we lack. ...Welcome to science HewsMike.
Gee.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWow.
Thanks.
You might want to look up 'metric' as well .... :-)
Quest for knowledge takes many, many forms. But scientific method fails dismally here as sociological deductions have an appalling record of reproducibility and predictive capability.
Cheers, Mike.
I'm frankly amazed by the dribbling idiocy of much of what I've read in these comments. 50 years ago I can imagine interracial kissing provoking similarly absurd levels of disgust and anger. The nonsense argument about homosexuality being reviled throughout history is both inaccurate and stupid - I couldn't give two hoots about historical precedent on hundreds of issues (eg slavery/women's rights/class). Mr Bering is right: attitudes only change when people are forced to re-evaluate their beliefs. The people who claim this sort of social engineering is 'Marxist' really need to have a good hard think about the question of degree. Or if we're all to be rugged individualists, get a grip and live with the fact that other people may not be exactly the same as you.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAgreed.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHomosexuals carry 33 different diseases and ailments. The average cockroach carries only 30. The average normal person can carry up to 3. COCKROACHES ARE BETTER THAN HOMOSEXUALS!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this'The average normal person can carry up to 3 ....'
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHave you counted homophobia in that, or is it an extra item? :-)
If homosexuallity is carried to extremes,we would not be here to comment about it.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI find the bigoted homophobic comments reprehensible, but this does not excuse Dr. Bering's bigoted sizist comments:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"...what I saw was a multicolored, gyrating mass of vaguely human substance, squirming and twisting on a park bench in animalistic fervor. My brain, unfortunately, was soon able to peel apart what I was actually observing, which was a particularly corpulent young woman devouring a young man half her size in what can only be described as a feast of open-mouthed, public lovemaking.... “Get a porn studio” was more like it." I suppose he will try to say he was making a funny point by pointing the disgust in the other direction. Sorry, it just makes him mean.
What is disgusting is the response of supposedly educated people to this article. I do think that Bering's description of the fat chick was bitchy for lack of a better term. However, the study is in fact interesting, and some of the comments here are shockingly ignorant. For anyone to think that they are important enough to dictate how others should live their lives (i.e. who they should be allowed to hold hands with in public) is despicable. These kinds of comments produce shame and embarrassment in gay people. This in turn causes much of the risky behaviour and unfortunate consequences in that population. Before making such comments, maybe you should think about how you'd feel about a 13 year gay person who is contemplating suicide reading them.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe blogs are deal with money. The countries USA, Chaina. and India. USA in
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this"This is because recent findings indicate that changing negative attitudes toward gays begins not with education, per se, but instead with exposing people more regularly to same-sex romantic behavior." I fully agree and think that we can go a step further and advocate that every straight should have a gay "friend" There is a t-shirt I saw the other day with a slogan " Every girl needs a gay" We should all wear one to show our support for changing negative attitudes towards gays, Try http://bit.ly/1uAaOg
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishahahahahaha yes yes we gays should all marry women who we will grow to regret because we aren't happen in any aspect of our lives except for maybe social lives that include shopping sprees. Yes men can marry what ever woman they choose but don't you think it would be sensible to marry the one you want? Its like having a government run health insurance but wanting to be able to get additional coverage. Well what do you want that for? its kinda selfish you have all the rights everyone else has.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisBack in August I helped to organize the Philadelphia Kiss-in for Equality with a great bunch of people. My husband was very supportive of my efforts and we took all three of our young children to the event. While I'm the last person to be French-kissing anyone in public, I feel that the more people see love around them, the less likely they are to demonize the unknown.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJesse, I love your style and I applaud SciAm for letting you express yourself. I hope to find you on Twitter someday soon!
I'd kiss the author anywhere anytime.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI'd kiss Jesse Bering anytime anywhere. YUM!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisi totally beleive gay people should not show affection in public that is my personal belief i find it offensive but at the same time if i dont want them to do it then hetorosexual couples should not either and i am fine with that if not holding hands and kissing my wife in public means i dont have to witness gays do it then fine i'm all for it sexual affection should only be expressed in the privacy of the bedroom or your home to begin with no one adults or children should have to be offended or embarressed by such behavior i dont want to see so i will not promote it as well respect peoples privacy and religious beleifs be considerate and respectfull of others and we will all have a better society to live in amen
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI dont want to watch people of the same sex holding hands or kissing or especially making out it offends me and I dont want my children watching it either but in the same sense it is not fair to stop gays from doing these things and not stopping straight people from doing the smae things as well I will happily not hold hands or kiss my wife in public if it means I wont have to watch gay people do it sexual affections should be kept in the privacy of the bedroom and the home we all need to respect each others beleifs and religions no one should ever have to be subjected to embarasment or have to be offended by this subject matter if we all respect everyones wishes and beleifs as a whole society if we do this we will have a much better society to live in what goes for one group of people should go for every group of people fair is fair if gays cant do it then straight people should not either and i am fine with that whats good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak or any way you want to say it i think you all get the point !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIT'S LIKE THIS...i'm going to repeat muself here in order to make this clear to any gays reading this!!straight people will always be disgusted by the very thought of someone of the same sex performing "sex" with them.it's normal for a straight person to feel this way about that.this is what makes them straight..the disgust a straight man feels at the very thought of another man poking his penis in his rectum and even kissing him on the mouth.straight women also would be disgusted by the thought of another woman engaging in sex with them..this will never change! if a straight person doesn't find the thought of another person of the same sex giving them a BJ or penetrating their rectum then that means they wouldn't be straight.that means they'd lean toward being bi-curious or homosexual.get a grip gay people.straight men will always feel that a man's penis being inserted inside his anus is disgusting and offensive.straight women will always feel disgusted by the thought of other women 'having their way' with them..otherwise they'd be bisexual,bi-curious,or homosexual.it will always be that way and gays ain't gonna change that..period..gays absolutely HATE to hear straight people's feeling of disgust regarding homosexuality..that disgust is how they'd feel about a person of the same sex 'pleasuring 'them..again it's normal to feel that disgust if that person is straight...what is it about gays that don't understand that and why do you believe that can be changed???
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI definitely agree with your general point. If I can quote Harvey Milk:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this“I cannot prevent anyone from getting angry, or mad, or frustrated. I can only hope that they’ll turn that anger and frustration and madness into something positive, so that two, three, four, five hundred will step forward, so the gay doctors will come out, the gay lawyers, the gay judges, gay bankers, gay architects … I hope that every professional gay will say ‘enough’, come forward and tell everybody, wear a sign, let the world know. Maybe that will help.”