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Aug 7, 2009 06:08 PM | 60
TORONTO—Corporal punishment has long been a hotly debated subject, with conflicting study results and opposing ideologies feeding the fire. Now the results of a five-year effort to review the scientific literature are in: a task force appointed by the American Psychological Association concludes that "parents and caregivers should reduce and potentially eliminate their use of any physical punishment as a disciplinary measure."
The recommendation was announced at the APA's annual meeting here today by the task force chair, psychologist Sandra A. Graham-Bermann of the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor. In a presentation, she explained that the group of 15 experts in child development and psychology found correlations between physical punishment and an increase in childhood anxiety and depression, an increase in behavioral problems including aggression, and impaired cognitive development—even when the child's pre-punishment behavior and development was taken into consideration.
The task force was not unanimous in its conclusion, however. Representing the minority view, psychologist Robert E. Larzelere of Oklahoma State University argued that the research is flawed and the evidence against spanking is "faulty." In the few studies that have compared spanking to other forms of punishment, such as restriction of privileges, grounding, and "time outs," all the punitive measures tested showed similarly negative outcomes in children, Larzelere said. He recommends parents use spanking as a backup when gentler forms of punishment are not working. "Premature bans against spanking may undermine loving parental authority, " Larzelere said.
Most members of the task force disagree with Larzelere, however, and stand firm in their recommendation against corporal punishment, which is still used by over 90 percent of American parents at some point in time, and condoned by over 60 percent of the population, according to 2007 survey data. Long-time physical punishment researcher Murray A. Straus, a sociologist at the University of New Hampshire who served as a consultant to the APA task force, pointed out that although the evidence against spanking is in the form of correlations (not direct causal proof), the effect is more robust than for the correlations that have served as bases for other public health interventions, such as secondhand smoke and cancer, exposure to lead and IQ scores in children, and exposure to asbestos and laryngeal cancer. "I am confident we will eventually arrive at the same place for corporal punishment," Straus said.
The APA is reviewing the majority and minority positions of the task force and will issue its official recommendation at a later date.
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60 Comments
Add Commenti was spanked, when needed, and i turned out fine. their is of course a line, it should not be used as the default form of punishment, but only when other forms fail to work exactly like Robert E. Larzelere said
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisMr Larzelere's logic is completely flawed. Firs off, children are not rational beings so the idea that a child thinks their parent loves them while being hit is delusional to say the least. My experience as child being spanked was one of anger and rage not love. The last time my father hit me I laughed at him and told him he was lucky that my restraint was greater than his.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI also believe that there is a difference between physical abuse, which is a horrible thing and you can be sure, accompanied by psychological abuse, by parents who should never have been allowed to breed, and spanking.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI've noticed that all too often, new age parents who don't ever spank their children very often have spoiled, obnoxious brats who don't listen to any adults.
The problem is, like with so many studies, I don't believe a word of this one, because all too often they are done by a group that has an agenda and preconceived notions, rather than coming at an issue unbiased and not working toward a specific outcome. I think people who become psychologists, as well as most of their teachers in school, tend to have a very definite tilt toward a very leftist view of the world and seem to have little connection to the real world, instead seeing life through a lens of textbook black and white.
I think the question is too simple and the answer given here is far too simple. In real life there is no "one size fits all". Parents and children have different kinds or levels of sensibility to rebuke that are both innate and cultural. I know children that a slightly raised parental voice can stop bad behaviour instantly, and other children you almost need a 2 X 4 to get their attention. I know parents who are incapable of raising a hand to anyone much less their own child. Those kind of people have usually developed other social mechanisms to demand and get respect. I have seen the 'Italian mom' in action who can lightly slap and shove their children in a manner that is loving, almost caressing. And of course, in contrast, there is the adult bully who beats his children and calls it "spanking".
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI suppose criminals shouldn't be punished either, then?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAt what point do we establish that the world carries hard lessons for those who step out of line?
Do we just let kids run into that headlong when their undisciplined selves discover that society will put them in a government sponsored anal rape and physical abuse institution if they step out of line, and then, if and when they are released, list them forever as "registered offenders", losing them all chance at a normal life? Oh, no... instead, we must save them from spankings.
Sometimes I wish the title of "scientist" were not legal to apply to the morons in the fad pursuits of the psycho-babblers.
Let's think this one through here. The question is really whether or not being a parent is sufficient ground to inflict physical harm upon a specific group of people. Does being a parent give you the right to spank your child in order to coerce them to bend to likely beneficial rules?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhich part makes it ok? That the parent is more knowledgeable, that the child may be considered a type of property, or that some children can only be made to understand in this way? Or is it a special case where each of these criteria must be met?
Should the wiser of any pair be allowed to subjugate the lesser in all situations, such as at work, in school, or in a nursing home?
Do special relationships allow for this type of discipline, such as among other family members, between spouses, or in other social groups and clubs like churches?
Is a certain type of child required? Can the method be replaced by an action devoid of pain?
Answer each of those questions, and you are left with the same fact at the end. You just hit a child because they were acting like a child. Childish, no?
> The question is really whether or not being a parent
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this> is sufficient ground to inflict physical harm upon a
> specific group of people.
No, it isn't. The question is, does presenting a physical result - painful, not harmful - act to counter misbehavior or worse? Yes. Are there painless alternatives that work with all children? No.
> Does being a parent give you the right to spank your child
> in order to coerce them to bend to likely beneficial rules?
Yes.
> Which part makes it ok?
The part that keeps them out of reform school, jail, and other areas of extreme social reaction. The part that keeps them from putting their sister's hand on the stove ever again. The part that instills in them a sense of consequence for actions they take. The part that polarizes their outlook so that they immediately recognize issues as highly sensitive and likely to lead to problems.
> Should the wiser of any pair be allowed to subjugate the
> lesser in all situations, such as at work, in school, or in a
> nursing home?
No. But that's not the issue at hand. The issue is, should the mature parent be allowed to train the immature child as to what behaviors are unacceptable.
> Do special relationships allow for this type of discipline,
> such as among other family members...
Absolutely.
> ...between spouses, or in other social groups and clubs like churches?
You're conflating entirely unrelated issues here. The socialization of a child is part of putting them on the path to do themselves and society the most possible good. It is early stage preparation for teenage and adult behavior. The rationale behind it is to do them, and society, good by inculcating positive action and discouraging negative action in the line of *their own choices*, at a time when they do not have either the tools or the knowledge to design those choices. Your spouse is already an adult. Anything you do with them requires informed consent. Churches are social groups composed of consenting adults. As long as informed consent is present, they can do what they want.
> Is a certain type of child required?
No. A certain type of behavior is required.
> Can the method be replaced by an action devoid of pain?
If it can, it should be. But replacing every instance of physical punishment for every child will no more serve them ideally than replacing every instance of painless punishment with a beating.
> Childish, no?
No. Physical punishment is a functional training tool. It can be misused, like most tools (including "quiet time.") Your rosy world is wholly imaginary.
Task force of 15 experts? In what? Denial? Leftist propaganda? Spare the rod, and your kid ends up being a delinquent. How many of the experts have kids? And how have they turned out?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTask Force of 15 experts in what? Denial? Leftist propaganda? Spare the rod, your kid ends up being a delinquent. How many of these so-called experts have kids? What are they like?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLegislation was introduced in New Zealand in 2007 "banning" the smacking of children. As you can imagine this produced a strong response, and has culminated in a referendum:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thishttp://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10589485&ref=rss
Parents hit children because: ___________. Ninety percent of American parents will list one or several rationalization(s) for striking their children in the name of correcting or controlling their behavior. The one consistent reason across all the many is that parents hit children because they can. Where, for whatever reason, they cannot, parents manage to raise good kids. Spanking is not necessary, no matter what reason is conjured up in its defense. Where parents are permitted to intentionally hit and hurt children, they do. Where they are prohibited, by law or conscience, parenting continues and children are socialized. Any failure in either has never been scientifically associated with a lack of physical punishment.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisfyngyrz - You should've been the one writing this article. You seem to have more logic in your little fingernail than these so called politically correct psychologists do in their whole body. If you listen to these nut jobs who wrote this article and some of these comments and try to implement their advice into your life, you will probably end up raising a serial killer of some kind. These psychologists need to go see a real psychologist and then go back to the school of hardknox and get some real learning before they start giving their "one size fits all" advice to parents who actually have children.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe day it is OK to smack coworkers and drivers who act like idiots is the day I think it ok to ever hit anyone who "deserves" it. Spanking like all forms of abuse has been carried down from one generation to another and so justified. Hit you wife for having an affair-bad, smack your kid for whatever the hell reason you think warrants it-fine and dandy. The double standard in this country about violence is appalling and to say it ok because we can do it to a group which is defenseless is bullshit.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe problem with this study and any study like this is that all they have to go on are correlations, and the only certainty is that inappropriate behavior causes the punishment. Because punishment without cause is abuse and I think everyone can agree that abuse greatly increases the odds of mental issues, and those who overcome abuse are by far the exception not the rule. Children are by far not a one-size fits all when it come to discipline. I can see that with my own 2 boys and which systems obtain the behavior that is necessary.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe whole spanking issue has gone into too many directions that don't focus on the issue of discipline and the consequences of improper behavior.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhen I was a kid a "time-out" was the time you spent in your room recovering and recomposing yourself after a good lickin' with the strap from dad, or a thorough hiney warming from mom with the hairbrush!
Turns out it did me a world of good. Who knew? Mom and Dad knew!
The whole spanking issue has gone into too many directions that don't focus on the issue of discipline and the consequences of improper behavior.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhen I was a kid a "time-out" was the time you spent in your room recovering and recomposing yourself after a good lickin' with the strap from dad, or a thorough hiney warming from mom with the hairbrush!
Turns out it did me a world of good. Who knew? Mom and Dad knew!
The whole spanking issue has gone into too many directions that don't focus on the issue of discipline and the consequences of improper behavior.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhen I was a kid a "time-out" was the time you spent in your room recovering and recomposing yourself after a good lickin' with the strap from dad, or a thorough hiney warming from mom with the hairbrush!
Turns out it did me a world of good. Who knew? Mom and Dad knew!
As a Christian preachers kid, I was not the spared the stern rod. As a father, I found other ways to discipline my children. Even in their wildest teen years, I found other ways to communicate with them without violence. Fear only breeds fear, hate only hate, anger only anger. They are in their mid twenties now and are loving and respectful citizens, caring of others and conscious of the world around them.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThis argument of sparing the rod, spoiling the child is of ignorance and self induced arrogance and hunger for power. Cultures like the Taliban, Bush Administration, Nazi Germany, Ca mere Rouge, Stalin's Russia and the enslavement of all peoples throughout history, are the fruits of seeds of "violence approved" which is planted in childhood.
I survived my childhood of regular beatings and psychological Holy correction. But I still suffer from depression, mood swings and disgust of my parents "corrections by Holy Book". I am still a PK, but not a perpetrator or advocate of violence. Nor am I a Christian or fundamentalist of any self sacrificing/enduring religion.
We live in a physical world with very real boundaries. In my view, when kids don't respond to persuasion and logic then corporal punishment is appropriate. I used to get spanked. And no one enjoyed it when I had to get punished. Not my dad, not my mom, not my sisters, and not me. But it was more effective than an abstract appeal to my undeveloped intellect. Let me add, many kids probably behave well enough that they don't need to get to that point. But spanking must remain an option for parents to choose as a discipline tool (disciplining their own offspring that they are ultimately responsible and accountable for I might add). Maybe at the point society or the State wishes to take full responsibility for physically and emotionally supporting and nurturing kids, they can also limit parental rights (or just dissolve their rights altogether.)
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWe live in a physical world with very real boundaries. In my view, when kids don't respond to persuasion and logic then corporal punishment is appropriate. I used to get spanked. And no one enjoyed it when I had to get punished. Not my dad, not my mom, not my sisters, and not me. But it was more effective than an abstract appeal to my undeveloped intellect. Let me add, many kids probably behave well enough that they don't need to get to that point. But spanking must remain an option for parents to choose as a discipline tool (disciplining their own offspring that they are ultimately responsible and accountable for I might add). Maybe at the point society or the State wishes to take full responsibility for physically and emotionally supporting and nurturing kids, they can also limit parental rights (or just dissolve their rights altogether.)
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCompletely agree with that. Spanking is absolutely needed, when the parent can differentiate spanking and physical abuse.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisGranted, like the guy said above, it ends with a little bit of rage. But kids forget that in minutes, given the parents also give their kids love.
"I've noticed that all too often, new age parents who don't ever spank their children very often have spoiled, obnoxious brats who don't listen to any adults."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOh really? My child was raised without a finger being laid on her and was a well mannered & disciplined child - & is now a fine adult.
Where's the science to the oft made claim? Where is the huge correlation between parents who don't spank & unruly children? There is none.
My 6 year old was angry that his 10 year old sister took the window seat on the train, even though it was her place on the return trip from the city. He pestered and pushed his way into her seat. I told him again and again to respect the turn, since he had the seat before. His sister gave him a push back after a repeated intrusion. He balled his fist, and slugged her across the face. I had never laid a hand on my kids. My wife had never struck either of them. When I saw my daughter's head snap back like a fighter in the ring, I grabbed my son, pulled him across my knee, and spanked his behind in front of a train full of witnesses. I wanted his butt to hurt. I put him back in the middle seat, tears streaming from his face, and asked him how it felt. It hurt! he said. Look at your sister, I said. Her face red and wet with tears. Look how you hurt her! I suppose I could have threatened no TV, or treat, or myriad of other non-corporeal punishments I had usually doled out. I never once had to lay a hand on him again. Now going on 18 we've talked and laughed about it. He doesn't remember the day at all. His sister does.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSpanking is like booze and alcoholics. You never want a person who lacks self control thinking hitting a child is justifiable. But don't paint with such a broad brush and say there is never a time a swift smack to the hiney. Reserve such punishment for the most severe of offenses, and a child will know how seriously he or she has erred.
It seems to me the question is too broad. It would be better to rephrase the question as "Are there any situations where a degree of physical punishment is more beneficial than other forms of training."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI'd like to see both short and long term comparison of specific situations after giving specific types of teaching stimulus. Then a comparison of the results may be much more useful than simply saying "spanking is bad or good".
When they fail at using there brains, they resort to using there brawn. Physical violence is for the ignorant. What? can't outwit a 5 year old? DUMBASSES!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI hit my little brother once. He was 15 years younger than I. I took off my belt, chased him down and gave him two lashes. I didn't know what else to do. I couldn't tell on him, but I couldn't let him get away with stealing money from the coin jar. (The roll I could get from the local bakery then for 2 cents is worth about $1.50 today, so the 2 quarters he stole was worth more than $25.00 in today's coin.)
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe point is, about 10 years later, I was in the next room when I heard him telling someone on the phone that he couldn't shop-lift even a candy from the local store, because when he was small his big brother caught him stealing 2 quarters and gave him two hard lashes, and he never wanted to steal again, because his brother never hit him before or since.
After hearing this unsolicited testimony, from the subject himself, that it was not the pain or the violence, but the gesture of severe disapproval from the big brother he was modeling himself on that got through to him, what do you want me think about corporal punishment?
The few times my mother hit me I can remember my emotions clearly. First there was astonishment, then confusion, then a review about what it was that I was doing. Finally, I was angry at my mom, then on reflection I decided that even though she didn't have to hit me what I was doing must have been pretty uspsetting to her so I'd better not do it again. The issue of being loved never entered my mind for one moment. Even women being brutalized by their lovers never really doubt that they are loved, however much they should.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this>The question is really whether or not being a parent is sufficient ground to inflict physical harm upon a specific group of people. Does being a parent give you the right to spank your child in order to coerce them to bend to likely beneficial rules?>
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisNo no no no! that's not the question. It's not a question of rights. That's secondary. What parent consults the law to determine what's right for a child? The primary question is the same as we have for any therapeutic procedure: "Even if if does harm the subject, is the harm it does really worse than the benefits it confers or worse than the harm it prevents?"
This means the research is inadequate. It's not enough to prove that chemotherapy makes the patient sick to the stomach and makes his hair fall out. The question is whether it saves his life. So the research has to ask and answer faithfully the beneficial aspects of spanking, and show its rationale for measuring the net outcome. This can be done statistically in an honest study. There can even be protocols for leaving out the arrant abuse as well as the total absence of control. This is not an honest study.
The rule at a camp I worked at for years was, Never hit a kid! Good rule. Of course that didn't mean you couldn't grab a kid being obnoxious by the arm and drag him somewhere to be dressed down! I treated my own kids the same way,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPhysical punishment is the solution for people who are not quite as smart as the child they are beating (oh, yeah, spanking). Violence NEVER solves anything, it is NOT an option! There are countless ways to deal with "bad things children do" -- books and books have been written -- child psychology is not mere flimflam. Remember that kids DO NOT have fully developed frontal lobes -- they just cannot fathom the results of what they do. But YOU do! Who, then, is the smarter? OK....granted.... spanking a child does happen in the best of families, but it is a sign of FAILURE. Nothing else. And it should be considered to be a failure.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisEvery person who argues here that violence against a child is good for them was also beaten by their parents. Brainwashing, just like religion. I have never touched my 11 year old in anger and I have never lied to her. She always knew that her parents were Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. The answer to parenthood is communication. All who claim that parenting is hard are simply concerned with themselves. It is always easy to make the right decision unless you put yourself into the equation. The ignorant are the ones having the most babies. But alas, even single cell organisms can reproduce.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe position I'm taking is that the research is inadequate because it is not balanced by any attempt to find the beneficial results, if any, of using that form of therapy. If the FDA were assessing medication to be given to a child with an illness which could be life threatening (both life and lifesyle, inthis case), they would be required first to determine a prognosis for the malady. Then they would be required to statistically assess the harm that could result from the proposed therapy, they would then statistically assess the benefits that could be rationally attributed to the therapy. Only then would they be required to assess the value of the therapy as a treatment for the malady. I have yet to see a study that has made an honest attempt at using a protocol of this nature.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI was spanked as a kid too, by loving, well-meaning parents. At that age, it's how I developed a complete indifference to human life, and entertained exceptionally violent tendencies, which I used to great effect in the service.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIn fact, several times by the time I was ten, it was only my god complex that convinced me to spare the lives of our entire neighborhood, after wiring their doors shut from the outside and surveying the whole row of them, gas can and torch in hand. I designed torture devices and ambush scenarios were drawn out in code... If you knew the horrors I had considered as a child, you would never, ever, consider violence against your own children.
Yeah. Years of therapy. Violence begets violence.
"in the service" [later on in life] (obviously, but...).
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAll entity's (people, animals, cells, whatever) respond to incentives. If an incentive does not produce a desired result, it must be changed until it does. In the case of disciplining children, the appropriate incentive should be used to achieve the appropriate results.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisEach disciplinary incentive (spanking, time-out, grounding, ect..) should be used only if it achieves the intended end result. It should not be used based on emotion but rather on a systematic bases given previous planing and thought. Each incentive has positive and negative aspects, each should be used only in the right situations. Spanking will have different end results versus time-out.
I am not saying that one incentive is right and the other is wrong. I am also not saying that one incentive has only positive or negative end-results. I am only saying that each incentive must be used in the right way, at the right time, and based on the specific wrongdoing of the child behavioral action. If parents can systematically think of which incentive is best for a child's long-term end-result, I am confident that the child will grow up just fine.
(please excuse any spelling or grammatical errors as I have written this on the fly, straight from my mind)
Thank you for that insight. I agree with the cost/benefit analysis. I am a nurse and we in the medical field use this all of the time.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSPANKING VS BEATING
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSon, spanking can't do that to a child. Sounds like you were beaten up. The word spank to me a sharp rap, or a few, with an open hand, or some innocuous object that doesn't cause severe bruising. A loving parent could hardly do more than that.
What I can't understand about these discussions, and didn't expect to find among people who have a scientific background, is the lack of nuance which goes into these commentaries. These discussions are too simplistic. "I was spanked," doesn't convey the extent of the punishment and is therefore useless as a diagnostic tool.
Same goes for the research. It is STUPID to lump a few sharp smacks with an open hand on a child's backside in with the extreme torture and rage that some parents visit upon their helpless offspring.
To illustrate, among us seven siblings we all said we'd rather a sharp smack from our loving mom than the protracted tongue lashing she was capable of when we'd really screwed up or were off on the wrong track. The former was more like a sharp reminder quickly forgotten or giggled about amongst each other. The tongue lashing was a solemn occasion, where we were made to feel that not only were we on a path to damnation but we were guilty of breaking our mother's heart long before we got there.
On the other hand there were two boys in our neighborhood who were regularly beaten up by their fathers, one a drunken, waterfront bully, and the other a pious straight-laced man who had snatched his two children from their wayward mother and was determined that they wouldn't end up like her. These two boys are both dead. They both became reckless young thugs who both died violent premature deaths.
The point is that all the children here would fall into the category of children who were spanked. Only the ones who were brutalized seemed to have been harmed by it. This is lazy research. If this clumsy undiscriminating approach were applied to the rigors of science it could hardly yield any useful results. Edison would never have invented the light bulb, the atom would never have been cracked, and Louis-Sébastien Lenormand in France, would never have made his historic parachute jump in 1783.
Spanking, not beating, should provide the basis for "consensual validation", the principle that good, ethical, and just behavior is rewarded while sociopathic, unjust, and bad behavior is punished. Without trying to reason with the child as a prelude to and as an alternative to spanking, spanking is counter productive to inculcating ethical, correct, and just behavior in children. Men, through studies, have shown to be much more adapt with regard to utilizing "consensual validation" in the disciplining of children than women such that a sense of justice concomitant with a sense of moral and ethical values appears to require the presence of a male parental and/or authority figure. As some other posters have noted, some children require no corporal punishment but will listen to and respond appropriately to "reason."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisParents are always responsible on their children’s actions. Moreover, they are obliged to discipline their children whenever they did something wrong, but taking physical act such as slapping too much is beyond their rights. For instance, Melissa Catherine Smith Means, the person in a video that's been all over YouTube where a person drags an unruly child by the leash around the child's midsection out of a store. It happened at an electronics store in Paris, Georgia. In The Science of Parenting, Margot Sunderland warns for adults to keep their logical brain working when kids throw tantrums. Maybe Melissa Catherine Smith Means should get <a rev="vote for" title="Mom Drags Kid On Leash, Gets What She Deserves" href="http://personalmoneystore.com/Payday-Loans/no-Fax-Loans/payday-Loans-No-Faxing/ ">payday loans</a> and buy a copy.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisthe threat of spanking,after time out ,removal of privledges,etc,then and only then a smack with a belt.u should not spank when u are mad,or having a bad day.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisbe consistent in your discipline ,the child should understand what to expect.
pick your battles ,did he/she sneak a sweet treat,big deal. did he/she smack a sibling for no reason,maybe time for the belt after a time out .
Spanking your child for misdeeds is a corporal punishment? Not so. It is a meaningful guide to the proper direction the the child needs to learn that the parent is more knowledgeable about than the child. There is no psychological damage to the child, it is simply a reminder of the proper direction to take in their life from a more responsible person... the parent. Correction to a child from a loving parent can never be wrong.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI like the Bible's approach to discipline. While allowing for using 'the rod', 'discipline' usually refers to counsel and teaching. If parents turn off the TV and force themselves and their kids to interact with each other without electronic destractions at least some part of the day, they will more likely have their ear when they need correction. It's a sad display to see kids throw tantrums in public with the parents sheepishly pleading with them to behave; like in a restaurant it's these same parents you see ordering a plate of fries or mac & cheese for their kids when there is a whole menu of nutricious meals to pick from.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI look forward to Rogeregon, et al.'s contributions to the literature on the conduct of bias-free research.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIn response to Forseti1's question: "How many of these so-called experts have kids? What are they like?", I am happy to report that all three of mine (aged 37, 34, and 26) are employed as professionals with advanced academic degrees in their fields and doing very well, thank you.
Finally, I leave you with a few questions to contemplate:
1. How does one decide when to start hitting a child as a corrective technique? Should the criterion be age or physical size, or some other marker?
2. How does one decide when hitting a child is no longer permissible or appropriate? Should the criterion be age or physical size, or some other marker?
3. Is there a clearly definable limit to the degree of force, permissible instruments/means or residual physical effects beyond which is excessive? If so, objectively define those limits.
4. If you accept the proposition that hitting is a proper consequence of misbehavior or sub-standard performance, are you prepared to accept such a consequence from your spouse, neighbor, friend, religious leader, instructor, other community member, or your own adult child when you "cross the line", or fall short of the mark? Justify your answer.
Consider your answers carefully, and write in complete sentences with proper grammar, syntax and punctuation. Spelling counts. You have one hour to complete this exam. Your grade will be expressed consistent with your answer to item three.
Good luck! :o)
A psychiatrist, that worked in top management positions in several pharmaceutical companies, Dr Juan Carlos Aguilera, warned me that if you never apply a physical punisment to your children, they develop psychopatic behaviour, and if you apply too much physical punishment, they become psychopats also. The middle term is to apply just the amount and kind of reward-punishment the kid exactly needs, and we all are different. Education is a fine art, and a difficult task, probably beyond human reach
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhen I was a child, my parents would just grab me and start whaling on me without warning when I had done something inappropriate. But when I had my own child, a wise Mennonite pediatrician offered this advice, "When she does something inappropriate (Kicking the cat, tearing things up, etc.) tell her, 'That's wrong. If you do that again, I will spank you.' That puts the ball in her court."
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI thought his advice was eminently fair to the child. Putting it to use, I didn't find it necessary to spank very much at all, and then only for things of vital importance that affected safety of life and limb.
The very act of issuing the warning to the child gives the parent a moment to cool down and depletes irritation.
What I found remarkable about the issue of spanking was how often that in families where spanking was done as a matter of course, the children were obnoxious spoiled brats. One such family I knew were preachy fundamentalist Xtians. They had a wooden paddle with Bible versions lettered on it, for spanking their children. Creepy!
Spanking should always be on the child's fully clothed, well-padded bottom. It should never be done with such force as to cause pain. It should be short and quick.
I've read of some parents who spank their children's bare bottoms, and that is just perverted!
A parent should be quick to apologize to the child if she screws up. I say that as a parent of two children who are now adults who have never been arrested and who don't expect a free lunch from anyone. ;)
What is the recourse when the child refuses "other forms of punishment":; ignores loss of privileges, grounding, and physically defies time outs? The child MUST be taught at home, and early, that certain forms of behavior are not acceptable, otherwise the child will learn it the hard way frompeers and law enforcement. As is true with all phycologists since Brothers & Spock, parents are instructed to "do this in this situation" and assujes that this will always solve the problem. Parents are NEVER instructed on what to do if the child does not respond. Been there, done that and I have found that parents must do whatever it taakes (short of injury or worse) to teach the child that boundries exists which the child cannot cross without consequencies. Physical should be the LAST resort, but it MUST be a resort!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHotblack...You seem to have a lot of DEPTH, man. Might sound stupid, but I used my vast knowledge of Louis Lamour novels to great effect and to survive during my service. My dad turned me on to them and also taught me to be a good father and husband. Now I follow one simple rule. I will only use violence to protect others, which I was recently forced to do. I'm still pretty quick for an old man and not too proud to run.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf you think you need to spank your child, it is absolute evidence of your previous failure, and the failure of your parents, and their parents.........
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf you think you need to spank your child, it is absolute proof of your previous failure as a parent. And your parents, and their parents.....
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisChildren have been physically disciplined since the dawn of Man, and probably before that. If there had been a truly detrimental effect caused by such discipline, then such effect would have either doomed mankind in the long run, or mankind has evolved to sustain any such ancillary effects caused by such discipline. We have survived this treatment as a species as the norm, a demand for a complete ban on corporal punishment is simply extremist thinking.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisOn another note, the roughhousing play that I have had (and that they throroughly enjoy) with my kids is often physically harsher than anything I do to them pursuant to physical discipline.
Would these busybody psychologists now deny me physical playtime with my kids too?
Or is it just the thought of physical interaction combined with a psychological rebuke that they object against.
The whole thing is incredibley hypocritical, and reeks of objections to perceptions of violence, not violence itself.
Like "learningengineer" & others, I was spanked as a child, too. And, the last time my mom whacked me, I think I was aged 11 and told my mom I'd whack her back if she did it again. She never did it again.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI think can be a really complex thing....for example, does a quick swat on the fanny or tap to the back of the hand to get a child's attention in a dangerous situation constitute "spanking"? What if you were angry when you did it?
I remember really faking the howling and screaming to make my mom feel guilty, because it actually didn't hurt. I also remember growing up with two cousins who were never spanked. They actually killed two of the kittens they had as pets because they were too rough with them...it was as if they had no sense of what physical force could do!
This discussion is so 20th century. Denmark abolished corporal punishment of children more than a decade ago.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisspanking is sexual
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisspanking is sexual
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt is disgusting when a man places a hand on a boy like that, it is a very gross feeling...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFor a parent to spank a child , well ~ such is a sexual assault.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSpanking is sexual. Parents who do not know how to kindly love are care for and guide a child should think twice about having children, A parent who sides with spanking children has a messed up view of the world.
Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisChild buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.
Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.
I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.
There are several reasons why child buttock-battering isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:
Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,
The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,
NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.
Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of testimony, educational resources, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research on "spanking".
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisJust a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child buttock-battering isn't a good idea:
American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
Center For Effective Discipline,
PsycHealth Ltd Behavioral Health Professionals,
Churches' Network For Non-Violence,
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.
In 26 countries, child buttock-battering is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
visit www.nospank.net
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisvisit www.nospank.net
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