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Aug 19, 2008 04:57 PM | 26
In a time of rising gas prices (well, actually falling at present but still more expensive than last year), many consumers are searching for ways to cut fuel costs. One eye-catching options appears to be so-called water for gas, turning the H2O from your tap into an endless fuel source.
But you'd better not put said water directly in your gas tank. That's a quick way to kill combustion in your internal combustion engine and earn a trip to the repair shop.
That's not what these outfits are peddling of course. They're selling kits that allow people to electrically or chemically separate the H2 from the O in water and then use said H2 as a fuel additive. And one man in Norfolk has used such a kit to extend the range of his Chevy Avalanche.
This makes more sense as it is the hydro in hydrocarbons like oil that provides the go in your vehicle (and it is the carbon that combines with oxygen via burning to form CO2, the most ubiquitous greenhouse gas warming the planet). By adding more H2 it is possible to extend the gas mileage of a vehicle.
But only under certain conditions. Most internal combustion engines, which, after all, are highly engineered pieces of machinery, are tuned to specific fuels (which is also why premium gasoline won't deliver benefits to an engine not designed for it). Although BMW and others have designed cars that can switch back and forth from burning hydrogen to burning gasoline, most cars aren't that capable. And any savings on fuel must be carefully weighed against the cost of the kit, which can run to thousands of dollars for an electrolyzer—a machine that splits water with electricity (which is also rising in price, by the way).
So be careful what you put in your gas tank. A penny saved at the gas station could turn into a dollar spent at the garage.
Credit: © Baris Simsek / istockphoto.com
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hydrogen economy,
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26 Comments
Add CommentAnd I thought that water vapor, being about 60 times more abundant in the atmosphere than CO2, is the most ubiquitous greenhouse gas??? Am I misinformed?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe advertisements for this product fail to point out that the energy to electrolyze water is coming from your alternator, which in turn is driven by your engine. Whatever chemical energy is available from the hydrogen has already been expended by the engine. You can't even break even by burning the hydrogen in your engine because that process is only around 30% efficient. It would make more sense to mount a fan on the trunk to propel a sail mounted to the hood.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI can't believe that the editors of Scientific American would allow such poorly researched article be published even if it's just on the web. As steelartdan pointed out, the writer fails to realize that there is a loss in energy in this process and the reference used is a news story of an unverified claim by one man.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDirectly burning the hydrogen is not the only benefit from using an electrolyzer. Hydrogen is an explosive and dispersive gas therefore it also helps to ignite the unburnt fuel in your engines. It also helps to lean out the fuel mixture which increases mileage. If your car is running, your alternator is generating electricity. So what if your battery is fully charged and your using minimal amounts of power on AC, lights, etc.? That energy is wasted overcharging the battery. An electrolyzer takes advantage of these periods of wasted energy. Fact of the matter is, most of you guys who haven't tried it, won't believe it; clinging to the second law of thermodynamics. The proof is in the pudding, and many people do use them with success.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTurtles, let me get this correct. you put more fuel into the intake and it helps lean it out. well sorry to tell you this, but you are wrong. when you lean a mixture out ,you are decreasing the fuel to the amount of air. to make it ritcher you are adding more fuel to the air. so if you are adding hydrogen, which is a fuel, to the intake, then you are making it richer not leaner.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thiserm, yea, but water falls as rain? CO2 doesn't.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisand we do need greenhouse gases. without water vapour, it would be the same as putting your house in the middle of the sahara desert: hot enough to cook an egg in the day, and cold enough to freeze water at night.
you and Dr. Nick Riviera are about the same i.q.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI'm not a fan of burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine. Hydrogen gas as fuel is not a completely endless renewable source. Here's why:
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDissolving hydrogen gas in a fuel tank's gasoline might add some (negligible) additional energy to the fuel, but it also will release some of the hydrogen to the atmosphere.
Directly injecting hydrogen gas into the engine's intake is likely to interfere with the engine's emissions management and cause a rich burn. The engine meters the correct amount of air/fuel to burn (relatively) cleanly. Hydrogen added to the mixture will consume some of the air, leaving excess fuel and producing extra carbon monoxide. When the engine is shut off, any hydrogen injected into the intake air will vent to the atmosphere.
Some of the vented hydrogen gas will either react with oxygen or ozone in the atmosphere to produce water
Earth's gravity is not strong enough to retain gaseous hydrogen. Some of the vented gas will be lost to space.
So what i'm wondering is if we use water for gas then eventually we will run out? Like with gasoline? Or will it turn into vapor and rain back down like it has been normally for billions of years when we wern't using it as gas? E mail me with a answer at: strmn1995@aol.com
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisLike the a0206807 said - whenever hydrogen gas is produced, any that isn't burned leaves the earth unless it reacts with ozone because our gravitational field is too low to keep it here. I don't know how much hydrogen leaves the earth having not reacted with ozone.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDo it enough, and yes, we will run out of water depending on our consumption rate, because hydrogen is extremely difficult to contain. The gas attacks metals, and liquid is lost very quickly. NASA figured 10% loss per day for their hydrogen fuel.
What is amusing about this article though, is that there is an old technology from the 1970's that uses ultrasonic mixing of gas and water, u to 30% water, to improve gas mileage. Works quite well, although it can lead to corrosion of some cylinders if the mix isn't quite right.
I am very disappointed in this article and the lack of research.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA couple years ago, I filled my 1992 Ford Escort with gas that was 20 cents cheaper than any other gas. For months afterwards, the car would stall if the gas pedal was not depressed for more than a few seconds (such as at stop lights.) I'd be sitting at the light and my car would start jerking and coughing and then stop. And I'd have to start it again. Darndest thing.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI made a homemade hydrogen generator with 4 stainless steel I bolt I decided to connect 1 pos electrode and 3 neg in tap water and washing soda solution I add 1 ounce of acetone to 4 gallons of gas and I added a electric fan to limit clutch fan engagement.I have a carbuerated v8 on a 74 lemans and have noticed a considarable increase in fuel milage in just the first few days I need to drive more miles to determine gains in milage.I am going to add a bubbler to filter hydrogen before it goes to the engine vacumm I am trying to figure out what kind of liquid I am going to use in the bubbler other than water gas,alcohol acetone. Any ideas
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHaving installed several of these units, including on my 99 Ford Ranger with the flex fuel engine, I have to say there is much misinformation about this system. If any one of you have ever driven a turbo charged or super charged car you know there is extra power available. This is simply from forcing more oxygen into the intake by mechanical means. Using this device simply substitutes a chemical reaction for the mechanical one. They both put a drag on the engine but the alternator as stated above is largely a passive device unless lights etc are turned on. The key is adding a rheostat to the electrolizer to allow control of the amount of current and gas produced. There is also water vapor which when injected into the cylinder greatly expands into steam and probably provides much more extra horsepower than the H or O2. I've gone from 24 to 37mpg and my intakes and cylinders are much cleaner as well. The only problem I've had is corrosion of the fuel injectors but have gone to high performance units and have not had any more problems.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisGreen house gases contain less than 2% CO2 and more than 90% H2O, so no you are not wrong.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisGreen house gases contain less than 2% CO2 and more than 90% H2O, so no you are not wrong or misinformed!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisTurtles. The load on a generator or alternator depends on the wattage being demanded of it. If you shut your head lights off your car will burn less gas. Period. Very basic stuff. :)
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSay what? How could one "dissolve hydrogen gas into to any liquid (gasoline)? Since when is the accelleration of earths gravity different dependent upon atomic weight?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIf you guys are going to make statments as fact, please include the source of the study and research that produced that statement. Otherwise keep your OPINIONS to yourself.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisPlease don't make statements of fact unless you have the research to back it up. Just because you state your OPINION with professed authority doesn't make it true. Also, if you resort to name calling because someone calls you on what you say, what you say becomes more questionable.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisthis is not spam but i want many people to see other choice.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou don't have to try something to understand that it works.
I've seen facts on the news and all over the Internet, that running a car on water IS possible.
Even that I haven't tried doing it, it doesn't mean that it's impossible.
Have you searched for other sites? Did you see it?
Is it really a scam?
if you don't satisfy you can asked for refund..no more pain
please see .....http://carwaterguide.blogspot.com
tag--waterforgas, water for gas, www water4gas com, water vs gas, water4gas com
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisrun your car on water, water for gas install, water gas conversion, water for gas scam
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this is not spam but i want many people to see other choice.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou don't have to try something to understand that it works.
I've seen facts on the news and all over the Internet, that running a car on water IS possible.
Even that I haven't tried doing it, it doesn't mean that it's impossible.
Have you searched for other sites? Did you see it?
Is it really a scam?
if you don't satisfy you can asked for refund..no more pain
please see .....carwaterguide.blogspot.com
Have you tried this on your vehicle? If so what was the outcome?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisI have read that this is a fraud in articles but who knows if it is just dis-info from the oil companies.
If anyone has tried this please tell us if and how well it worked.
http://carwaterreview.blogspot.com
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<a href=http://carwaterreview.blogspot.com>carwaterreview.blogspot.com</a>
I don't know if the water4gas thing works or not: although I DO know (for a fact) that the production of the HHO gas DOES work, and IS generated by proper HHO generation machines. It is real and is here. Check out these sites; http://carwaterreview.blogspot.com
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFirstly, water vapour is indeed a powerful greenhouse gas. But unlike other such gases, water exists in three phases, so within two weeks on average, water vapour becomes liquid and therefore harmless. This is why its concentration in the atmosphere remains constant with climate.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisSecondly, hydrogen-driven cars existed for decades in France and elsewhere. They were fueled by pyrolyitic wood 'gazogens' and worked very well. Incredibly, there is virtually no current research in this field.