14 Comments

1. 1. jtdwyer 07:57 AM 6/23/12

   So the bio fuel costs more and its combustion presumedly produces essentially the same environment contaminants as jet fuel, but at least it's renewable... But what are the requirements for land, at least to cultivate the weedy flower? How will this help humanity to survive the impending climate disaster or grow more crops for the expected increasing population?

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2. 2. alan6302 in reply to jtdwyer 10:02 PM 6/23/12

   what makes u think the population will continue to rise. The crash is coming.

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3. 3. jtdwyer 06:46 AM 6/24/12

   I said "expected increasing population..."

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4. 4. Gord Davison 07:36 AM 6/24/12

   It is a closed loop system. It takes its carbon required from the atmosphere so there is little to no carbon overall generated. Buring oil takes the carbon gathered over millions of years and puts it back into the atmosphere.
   
   The cost of regular oil would be much higher if the fuel producers had to pay to scrub out every ounce of carbon that their fuel produces.
   
   All we really need is to turn every roof into a solar collector and we will have more energy than we know what to do with.

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5. 5. sethdayal 01:10 PM 6/24/12

   Far cheaper, zero environmental cost, to fuel jet with dirt cheap nuclear synfuels

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6. 6. jtdwyer in reply to Gord Davison 02:40 PM 6/24/12

   Very good point about the closed loop carbon cycle for biofuels.
   
   However, biofuel production must compete with other agricultural products for water if not land resources.
   
   Also, the article states "...the compound, blended with petroleum-derived jet fuel." The highest blend I've found mentioned is a 50/50 biofuel/petroleum JP8 mixture. I don't know why 100% biofuels cannot be used...

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7. 7. Dredd 03:07 PM 6/24/12

   Obviously the chief commenter does not know what microbes are.
   
   Clue: you have 10 microbe cells for each 1 human cell, your genetic material is 98% microbial.
   
   Microbes are the oldest life form on earth.
   
   etc.

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8. 8. jtdwyer in reply to Dredd 05:57 PM 6/24/12

   I don't think microbial biofuel production facilities will be based on our gut bacteria, although depending on what they're fed they can produce a lot of hot volatile gasses blowing out both ends...
   
   I'm presuming that water and some kind of nutrient material will be required for any large scale biofuel production facilities. If I'm mistaken perhaps someone more knowledgeable can reasonably explain.

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9. 9. jtdwyer in reply to jtdwyer 07:24 AM 6/25/12

   I'll correct myself - the linked article http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=bacteria-transformed-into-biofuel-refineries
   describes in more detail that presumedly the bacteria used actually are genetically modified E. coli, fed plant cellulose.
   
   The plant cellulose must be produced somewhere: I haven't found where Brazil is producing the plant cellulose fed to the E. coli - hopefully it's not using crops grown on denuded land in the Amazon rain forest...

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10. 10. jtdwyer in reply to jtdwyer 07:24 AM 6/25/12

    I'll correct myself - the linked article http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=bacteria-transformed-into-biofuel-refineries
    describes in more detail that presumedly the bacteria used actually are genetically modified E. coli, fed plant cellulose.
    
    The plant cellulose must be produced somewhere: I haven't found where Brazil is producing the plant cellulose fed to the E. coli - hopefully it's not using crops grown on denuded land in the Amazon rain forest...

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11. 11. dbiello 01:03 PM 6/25/12

    Blends have to be used because the bio-jet fuel lacks aromatics to swell critical seals shut... or we could just re-design engines (but that's why drop in biofuels were developed in the first place. To avoid that cost.)

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12. 12. jtdwyer in reply to dbiello 02:26 PM 6/25/12

    Thanks - I couldn't have guessed that one!

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13. 13. pafranke in reply to jtdwyer 08:13 PM 6/25/12

    JT: two comments on your notes. 1st, biofuels utilized in commercial aviation have to qualify as drop-in fuels. Meaning, the airplane, its engines and the airport fuel infrastructure shall not be able to distinguish a drop-in biofuel from the fossil 'original'. While biofuels are quite similar to fossil jet fuel, they do not meet yet all the specs on their own, hence the blending, typically limited to 50%. 2nd, Azul has made it clear that they will not be willing to spend any extra dime for the renewable content in the blend (very much like all of us out here....). This shall be doable, with the production scale planned by the time the sugarcane-derived fuel gets certified, circa 2016.

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14. 14. jtdwyer in reply to pafranke 08:23 PM 6/25/12

    Very informative - thanks very much!

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