12 Comments

1. 1. singing flea 04:07 PM 8/2/12

   "Roughly 80 percent of the ice loss seems to be attributable to this kind of loss at glacier outlets rather than the glacier as a whole. The cause may be warmer ocean temperatures, although sea-surface temperature measurements are lacking to definitely prove that hypothesis."
   
   As the ice wrinkles and cracks the albedo changes too. Less sunlight is reflected. Melt water reduces the insulation factor of fresh snow on the surface and transports surface heat throughout the glacier by peculation. Friction creates heat in the faster moving ice. Warmer ocean water infiltrates the melt water under the ice. It's a cumulative effect.
   
   What many skeptics don't understand about global warming is that the difference in temperature between frozen water and liquid water is less then one degree. Once it melts, water transports heat much faster then the frozen ice did.
   
   An increase of just one degree can melt thousands of square miles of arctic and glacial ice. Imagine what a 10 degree change in the arctic regions can do.
   
   People barely notice a difference of a few degrees, but mother nature is much more sensitive. If the changes take place over millenniums, nature can adapt, but if it happens in a matter of centuries or worse yet decades, the effects can be catastrophic.

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2. 2. singing flea 04:10 PM 8/2/12

   "peculation" ? Pretty funky spell checker. Oh well, it took nearly four years to get Obama in the spell check database.

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3. 3. moss boss 05:19 PM 8/2/12

   Flea:
   
   From a thermodynamics standpoint, water that has just gone through the transformation of a solid to a liquid (given that just enough energy was introduced it to cause it to melt) is the same temperature that it was just prior to the change of state; 32 deg. F/ 0 deg. C. Both ice and liquid water can be exactly the same temp.
   
   And the heat created by friction of "faster moving ice" would be immeasurable. The point that is made regarding more liquid water in a glacial "system" (for lack of a better word) is that the glacier would move more quickly downhill to the ocean, because of the lubricative effect of increased liquid H2O.

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4. 4. moss boss 05:20 PM 8/2/12

   sorry, "to it"

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5. 5. neuton1454 in reply to singing flea 09:08 PM 8/2/12

   Only a F00L would read politics into pure science. I am sure you are not that kind of person?

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6. 6. singing flea in reply to moss boss 10:46 PM 8/2/12

   "Both ice and liquid water can be exactly the same temp."
   
   Let's not get nit picky. You know exactly what I was saying. When the ice melts the water temperature continues to rise whether you think so or not.
   
   As for friction creating heat, I never said it was not negligible, however that may not be altogether true either.
   
   I still say the melting is due to a cumulative effect of all the factors I mentioned and perhaps a few others I did not.

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7. 7. singing flea in reply to neuton1454 10:50 PM 8/2/12

   "Only a F00L would read politics into pure science. I am sure you are not that kind of person?"
   
   At least a fool like me knows the difference between an "o" and a zero.
   
   Anyway, pure science and politics have been jousting for as long as man has formed governments. I won't even get into the follies created by religion.

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8. 8. Bill_Crofut 06:02 PM 8/3/12

   Re: "Thanks to weird weather, nearly the entire ice-covered surface of the world's largest island melted for a period this year."
   
   The statement prompts to me to ask:
   
   How long was the period of melt?
   
   What is the current status of the melt?
   

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9. 9. singing flea in reply to Bill_Crofut 01:25 AM 8/4/12

   That's a good question Bill. Being the middle of summer and considering it has happened before it is likely not going to stay like that for long.
   
   The issue is why it happened this time, and in the past. There is no proof that even if it happens every 150 years or so, as some scientist have hypothesized, the cause is the same each time and unless we study all the data not just ice core samples, perhaps there is something more to be learned.
   
   If however it begins to happen more regularly then it would definitely point to a trend caused by man this time.
   
   I would be interested to know the duration of past events like this and the correlation to other natural phenomena like extreme volcanic activity or massive solar storms.
   
   It is apparently not due to the Milankovitch cycles as they do not correspond to any 150 year cycle. I suspect that the 150 year cycle is more likely a coincidence that has not yet been fully verified at any rate.

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10. 10. Bill_Crofut 12:17 PM 8/4/12

    singing flea,
    
    Perhaps the adage, “Time will tell,” applies in this case.
    

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11. 11. eco-steve 06:55 PM 8/5/12

    Most glacier meltwater disapears into crevasses and ends up in deep underground rivers where it is difficult to quantify since the resurgences are well below sea level.
    Attempts to descend into even quite modest sinks have failed as the air is irrespirable because of ice dust. These rivers are kilometers down and hundreds of miles long and must represent considerable quantities of meltwater. So far research into them has been inadequate.

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12. 12. lystrosaurian 11:59 PM 8/17/12

    If you recall, the time the melting was announced was about a week after the summer heat wave broke over the Midwest. I presume that that heat dome found its way over Greenland. I believe that such an event is more a product of unusual weather that occurs occasionally. Its not really a direct product of GW.

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