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Scientific American editor Steven Ashley test drives a car that may be the future of automotive transportation--if cost, technology and infrastructure problems can be resolved
October 20, 2008 | 34
Honda claims that its 2008 FCX Clarity sedan is the world's first true mass production hydrogen fuel-cell car. Its compact electric drivetrain has allowed Clarity's designers to give the car a low center of mass and a long wheelbase....[More]
Honda's latest V-Flow fuel-cell stack design incorporates a new cell structure that helps the device produce more power--100 kilowatts--from a smaller, lighter package than previous company units....[More]
The instrument panel of the FCX Clarity is highlighted by luminescent meters, one of which is a central ball-shaped hydrogen tank gauge that clearly indicates the rate of fuel consumption by changing shape and color as the driver demands more power....[More]
Filling up the FCX Clarity with hydrogen is simple: a) open the car's refueling flap; b) take off the plastic tank inlet safety cap; c) remove the hydrogen-refueling nozzle and hose from the station pump; d) insert the nozzle into the car's hydrogen filler inlet; e) rotate the nozzle's hand-lever to engage its integrated check valve to prevent any backflow, and start refueling....[More]
The world's first Honda FCX Clarity customers, Ron Yerxa [ center ] and wife Annette Ballester, get a lesson from Tim Cunningham, Honda fuel-cell vehicle program consultant, on how to refuel their newly leased car last summer in West Los Angeles....[More]
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34 Comments
Add CommentThis is a really good article on the Honda FCX Clarity.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHowever, there is a solution to the hydrogen fueling infrastructure problem. It is hydrogen fueling station cooperatives. The idea has been getting a tremendous amount of positive feedback in the hydrogen community and blogosphere.
Hydrogen fueling station cooperatives are a way to build the hydrogen fueling infrastructure without the oil companies or the federal government.
This solves the “chicken and egg” hydrogen infrastructure problem, because the cars and fueling stations would come at the same time.
Here is a link to a short article that I recently wrote about this:
http://hydrogendiscoveries.wordpress.com/2008/09/27/hydrogen-fueling-station-cooperatives-how-to-build-the-hydrogen-fueling-infrastructure-without-the-oil-companies-or-the-federal-government/
Greg Blencoe
Chief Executive Officer
Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc.
What about using ammonia, which is H3 and N? You get 3 hydrogens for every nitrogen when it's split at the distribution center. You get TWO useful products. And, one can envision using solar or wind power to power the splitting of the liquid ammonia into the two components. Plus, ammonia is one of the most commonly produced industrial product on the the entire planet. Please tell me that the splitting of this liquid into H and N isn't cost effective. It seems that it would be the best way to 'transport' hydrogen.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWater and electricity already have distribution networks; combine to deliver hydrogen locally.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisFuel cells are hugely expensive; reduce costs with an internal combustion engine burning hydrogen.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHonda offeres a concept that is in prototype phase where you can refuel at home. Hydrogen is stipped from the natural gas and can be used to power the entire home.
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/home-energy-station.aspx
Also an interesting juxtapostion of the home energy concept is a possible technology where using mere solar energy and water the hydrogen can be stripped and used as fuel in a home system. It works using the same princples as photosysthesis.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html
A home system is superior in that it creates modular independence. It is limited for long travel so an infrustructure would eventually be necessary.
The manufacture of ammonia generates carbon dioxide. There are two general ways to make hydrogen more directly: one uses fossil fuel and generates carbon dioxide; the other (electrolysis) uses electricity. If the only clean way to make hydrogen is to use electricity, why not just use the electricity, in batteries? No new distribution system needed.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisKrohleder,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHome hydrogen fueling is not economical at all. The Honda home fueling station is likely to cost many thousands of dollars. And consumers would still need to buy a compressor to get the hydrogen up to 5000 or 10,000 psi which would be very expensive.
ITM Power (UK) has an electrolyzer technology to produce hydrogen at home. The company estimates that the electrolyzer would cost 2000 British pounds ($3700) if mass produced and the compressor would cost 20,000 British pounds ($37,000).
Home hydrogen fueling sounds good on paper until the economics come into play. Hydrogen pipelines will be needed to distribute the hydrogen.
http://hydrogendiscoveries.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/is-home-hydrogen-fueling-really-viable-only-if-you-are-willing-to-spend-over-40000/
Greg Blencoe
Chief Executive Officer
Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc.
j.quasimodo,
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThere are many reasons why you shouldn't just use the electricity in batteries.
Batteries are extremely expensive. The Tesla costs $109,000 and the Volt will cost $40,000.
The general rule is that batteries will cost $500 per mile (e.g. 40 miles of range will cost $20,000 EXTRA).
This is why only around 300 Toyota RAV-EV battery vehicles were sold per year a few years ago. They cost $42,000 and the Toyota RAV powered by gasoline cost only $17,000. Would you pay $25,000 more for a battery vehicle?
Here is an article that discusses nine problems with plug-in battery cars which include: driving range, fueling time, cost, space they take up in the car, durability, safety, weight, cold weather performance, and environmental issues.
http://hydrogendiscoveries.wordpress.com/2008/04/16/hydrogen-fact-9-plug-in-battery-advocates-try-to-use-a-misguided-argument-against-hydrogen-to-distract-attention-away-from-the-numerous-problems-with-plug-in-technology/
Furthermore, if too many people plugged in their cars where there is an old or maxed out electrical grid, there would be problems. Therefore, if all cars on the road were plug-ins, there would need to be a huge infrastructure investment.
There is a reason why Toyota and Honda are aggressively pursuing hydrogen fuel cell cars.
Greg Blencoe
Chief Executive Officer
Hydrogen Discoveries, Inc.
I have a Honda Civic GX that burns natural gas. I went this route because I could fuel it at home and it suited my range demands without the need for a public station. The home fueling station is expensive, but the savings over gasoline gives me a 3 - 4 year payout time depending on the cost of gasoline in that time frame. The tax credits provide the remaining incentive. With hydrogen there are no cost savings yet. Hydrogen is just as expensive as gasoline or more so and home fueling is not yet an option. Until gasoline prices increase to a point to force people to consider hydrogen, then it will never happen for the regular consumer. Renewable sources of methane, either landfills or dedicated biological sources seem more plausible as the distribution system for natural gas is already built and gasoline cars can be converted to burn natural gas without much modification. Compressed natural gas is the next cleanest fuel to hydrogen available. Its not the final solution, but much more plausible than hydrogen for right now.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAnhydrous amonia (amonia in it's pure state) is used in the manufacture of explosives.. I don't think we really want a fuel that volatile transported in massive quantities even if it were cost effective to split into useful fuels.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThe links I provided do not involve hydrogen pipelines. New technology and new model. The second link to the MIT research would produce hydrogen in the home itself at a very economical price. Of coarse this is mostly theory right now but it is a question of time and development. Nature can do it so it is possible for us to do it as well.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHydrogen-powered cars and lorries have been running for decades. You simply pyrolyse wood in a gas generator to produce hydrogen which you then feed directly into the motor. Waste products are water and charcoal. It is the greenest technology, as trees sequester atmospheric CO2 as charcoal, which can be crushed and spread onto fields as a fertiliser.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHydrogen-driven cars and trucks have existed for over half a century. Put dry biomass in a gas generator and pyrolyse it. Feed the hydrogen into the motor to produce water, and spread the charcoal on fields to fertilise them. The oldest solutions are often the simplest!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWhat about sugar cane? It's usuage in Mexico is about 90% and it is cheaper and efficent to use. We can power up our cars like this too.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thiswe currently have the hydrogen generating infrastructure to power 110 million fuel cell vehicles. Hydrogen is used to boost gasoline performance right now. All we need is the last mile to bring it to the pumps.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisCars and trucks have been driven by gas generators for generations. By replacing the 'gazogene' by a pyrolytic retort we could run cars on hydrogen generated by dry biomass. They would need to be pre-heated to start, but the only bi-products would be charcoal and water. The crushed charcoal could be added to soil as agri-char. Therefore this method would actually sequester atmospheric CO2 adsorbed by trees!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisA simple technology already exists to generate hydrogen in almost any location. Electrohydrolysis powered by solar PV will work just fine. All it needs is a pipe to the water supply, and some compressors and a big storage tanks. The result would be hydrogen for fuel cells and oxygen for the production of steel, plastics and textiles; rocket propellant; oxygen therapy; and life support in aircraft, submarines, spaceflight and diving, etc...
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIt would be especially useful in areas where there is an abundance of water... but wouldn't be well suited to overly dry areas because it would deplete resivoirs just as we deplete oil and dry up everything. It may also be a good idea to release the extra oxygen into the atmosphere because hydrogen fuel celled cars will essentially be combining hydrogen with the oxygen in the air to make water, the result is a net gain of water and a loss of oxygen from the air. If the oxygen is released into the air, then you end up with a net zero loss because everything is being replenished.
The only problem with this application is that electrohydrolysis isn't extremely fast and would require quite a big solar array and storage tanks to facilitate the sheer volume of hydrogen required for our transportation needs. An advantage would be that when the tanks are full, the excess power could be fed back into the electrical grid. Alternatively, the solar panels could be skipped entirely and the entire system run just off the grid power... but that's not nearly as green is it?
This isn't just about cars. The great thing about alternative fuels today is that they are all developing on a broad front simultaneously. For me the two most promising technologies seem to be high voltage direct current transmission over long distances (already in trial in Sweden) and battery improvement.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisDC transmission will open up the huge resources of desert solar by providing cheap transfer to the big urban consumers (homes, offices and industries). Plenty of deserts in the US and especially as far as Europe is concerned the Sahara by itself will do nicely.
Small, powerful, rechargeable batteries with a longer life per charge will provide scalable storage and use for eg electric appliances of all kinds including vehicles, as well as for levelling out collection and consumption disparities.
In addition the broad advances being made in relation to wind, wave, tidal, geothermal and kinetic generation of electricity all add up to an aggregate supply of energy worldwide that will surpass even Tesla's titanic vision.
Consequence of using hydrogen is for any that escapes into the atmosphere, hydrogen combines with hydroxyl, which otherwise would have reacted with methane. Methane is an increasingly prevalent global warming gas. Thus a hydrogen economy may increase global warming everything else being equal.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisWe really have no choice but to develop hydrogen cars. There are just not enough anode and cathode metal ressources in the world to equip vehicles with batteries. Even Hydolyitic and fuel cell units will put a big strain on electrode ressources. There is still plenty of scope for technological progress!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHow about a car that could produce its own hydrogen? This way no stations are needed. I know of attempts to accomplish this and at least on has had some success. Of course, in terms of making money this isn't the solution that those who want to build stations would want.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisStuck in neutral? A bit harsh for a guy that just drove the car... each Clarity Honda puts on the road is a down payment toward another upshift to full speed. Hardly neutral... Also, no need to turn this into an "EV vs FCV" or "CNG is better" debate... as a nation we are TOTALLY dependent today on OIL, so please, lets get on with it. All solutions are needed and let the upshifting begin! Each technology will advance. Toyota now is going to make a Prius run on CNG!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisEV, Fuel Cell, CNG... they all use zero oil and (with renewables) they all can be zero CO2... so there.
i have a question: can you split the oxygen and hydrogen bond in the water molecule and have a reliable energy source from it, because if you can that could have powerful applications in the energy world (cause then you can use it with hydrogen technology and have a long lasting energy source)?
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisit's has review many sites like gasforfree,runyourcaronwater etc.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisYou can truly get better mileage...... http://carwaterguide.blogspot.com
before the future of hydrogen cars is made, we need to have enough stocks of hydrogen to make this possible!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisand it is hard to store.
Hopefull : Cars CAN generate their own hydrogen! To do this, fit a pyrolysis 'Gazogen' to the rear of the car, fill it with wood chips and fire up. The reaction produces hydrogen and leaves a residue of charcoal which is an excellent soil ammendment. Such cars were sold in france until the fifties, but no research has been done since. Of couse if it takes five minutes to fire up an oven, you wouldn't use the car for short journeys. But it works well!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisHopefull : Cars CAN generate their own hydrogen! To do this, fit a pyrolysis 'Gazogen' to the rear of the car, fill it with wood chips and fire up. The reaction produces hydrogen and leaves a residue of charcoal which is an excellent soil ammendment. Such cars were sold in france until the fifties, but no research has been done since. Of couse if it takes five minutes to fire up an oven, you wouldn't use the car for short journeys. But it works well!
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this10 thousand the man till 2 thousand dollars will create fund. The fund can organize mass release of microcircuits of isothermal converters of heat in a constant electrical current. One microcircuit can have capacity more than 8 Вт.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisIn Russia the working breadboard model of a fragment of an integrated microcircuit of the converter is made which straightens thermal noise (Н. Nyquist) independent electrical conductors and puts(folds) capacity of separate sources, uniting them consistently and in parallel for reception of a source with necessary by a pressure(voltage) and current.
In соотвтетсвии with accounts, panel, on which are placed of 10 thousand microcircuits will to give back in electric motors, which are located in wheels of the automobile, more than 80 kw.
Cost and weight of square meter of the panel is equal to cost of the solar battery of the equal area, but the capacity of the panel nyquistjres in 300 times more, even if the solar panel works in optimum conditions.
Without loading the panel with microcircuits has temperature of an environment. At connection of loading temperature of the panel falls and that the target capacity of the panel did not fall, it is necessary to blow the panel with in microcircuits by air. At movement of the automobile обдув is made automatically, on parking it is necessary to include the fan.
At capacity of the panel in 100 kw, the capacity of the fan обдува should be no more than 0.8 kw.
In Russia this invention is not necessary for anybody. There is a sanction from РОСНАУКИ and from ФСБ on interaction with the foreign investors. Interestingly, in USA this offer can interest the investors?
"Would you pay $25,000 more for a battery vehicle?"
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisor $250,000 more for a hydrogen vehicle. Obviously, the H2 vehicle is the better deal and manufacturing H2 from natural gas or electricity only wastes 85% of the input energy.
But, H2 is a religion, and there isn't any money intrying to convert the true believers.
Pure electric vehicles are the only sensible, long-term solution. Hydrogen and other "fuel-powered" vehicles are immensely more complicated and require huge investments in infrastructure. Further, all fuels require some sort of "extraction" process -- which adds costs.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAll of this fuss over a [hydrogen] car that gets the equivalent of 50mpg is an expensive baby-step toward energy independence and a giant leap toward a financial white elephant.
The infrastructure for electricity is already here and will always be here. It can be upgraded gradually -- just as electric cars will appear gradually.
C'mon people, use your brains -- stop wasting your time on hydrogen and focus on making batteries more efficient, lighter, and cheaper.
photoguy : In wartime europe there was not much gasoline being sold by the german army to civilians. And in Australia there were no pumps in the outback. So as a result, many countries adapted cars to be powered by gazogenes, that is, biomass pyrolysed into hydrogen. In mountainous regions, too, gazogenes firing wood allowed total autonomy of supply for forestry machines.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisThere is strictly no reason not to do it again.
fuel cell is a fool cell
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAll this hype about how to re fule cars with hydrogen is actually true.The problem has been to create hydrogen cheaply and get it to some place so others can use it.The only practical method that comes to mind is to make it right where you want to use it.Containment of hydrogen is the issue.Alternate Energy Conversions Inc.,has solved all of these concerns by pattening a process that mak.es instant hydrogen on demand.This will eliminate the need for any infastructur that is now nessassary to support the way we would re fule these cars.with that said,where are all those who want to get this off the ground?We havent had anyone trying to break down our door yet.did i mention that we can produce it at pressures exceeding 300,000psi and at temperatures above 5,000deg.this brings to mind another fact--[This pressure is in actuality another form of energy that can be redally extracted form this process to do further work].any one wanting further information should contact us at ---aeci.us.com---
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisAll this hype about how to re fule cars with hydrogen is actually true.The problem has been to create hydrogen cheaply and get it to some place so others can use it.The only practical method that comes to mind is to make it right where you want to use it.Containment of hydrogen is the issue.Alternate Energy Conversions Inc.,has solved all of these concerns by pattening a process that mak.es instant hydrogen on demand.This will eliminate the need for any infastructur that is now nessassary to support the way we would re fule these cars.with that said,where are all those who want to get this off the ground?We havent had anyone trying to break down our door yet.did i mention that we can produce it at pressures exceeding 300,000psi and at temperatures above 5,000deg.this brings to mind another fact--[This pressure is in actuality another form of energy that can be redally extracted form this process to do further work].any one wanting further information should contact us at ---aeci.us.com---
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to thisthe best way to transport hydrogen is not in a container but to produce it where you need it.we have created the cartrage that will make instant hydrogen on demand and requires no containment at all.
Reply | Report Abuse | Link to this